TP-028, Nat Adderley's Work Song is now available

Author Topic: Difficulty of recording your own album..........  (Read 5709 times)

Offline Red Grant

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 87
    • View Profile
Difficulty of recording your own album..........
« on: September 09, 2009, 09:14:32 AM »
or tape project of your own?


Has any of you thought of re-composing your favorite piece and creating your own album by having some struggling wannabee cover band play it as an instrumental, using 1/2" 30isp r2r?


How difficult would that be?  meaning expensive?


I'm posing this question, because I heard that live-recording is where r2r really shines.   More than one person told me, for dubbing pre-recorded music, 3 head, high quality cassette is almost as good as r2r.


...and I think I might have a way of re-composing a version of "Spudnik" aka "Surf Rider" that might be an improvement over both "The Ventures" and other cover bands.







Hyok (Tony) Kim,  yes, this is my real name.

Btw.  How do you know it's my real name?  Just because I say so?

2 Pioneer RT-2022, 4 Beocord 2000 deluxe, Beomaster 8000, 6000, 5000 (80's version), 4000,    Nikko Alpha III, Grundig RTV Receivers, Beovox  RL140 Speakers.

Offline docb

  • Administrator
  • leader in spreading disinformation
  • *****
  • Posts: 1345
    • View Profile
    • Bottlehead Corp.
Re: Difficulty of recording your own album..........
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2009, 10:53:01 AM »
Quote
More than one person told me, for dubbing pre-recorded music, 3 head, high quality cassette is almost as good as r2r.

I would say that depends upon the source. If you are recording from LPs and recording on 1/4 track R2R at 3-3/4 ips they would probably be similar. If you are recording a higher resolution medium - say a 15 ips original master at 15 ips 2 track - fuggedaboudit.

The expense of the project you are considering has a whole lot of variables. Do you have to pay the band up front? Are you planning to rent studio time? Buy equipment? Will you record multitrack and mix down to 1/2"? What will the distribution medium be? CD? Download? Hi Res? BTW if it's rock you might find 15 ips sounds a little beefier than 30 ips and it will save you a lot of tape.

You will probably find that renting studio time is a lot less expensive than buying all the gear you need to do it right. And you can typically get an engineer in the deal, who can guide you through the equipment setup. Make sure the band has it together BEFORE they go to the studio. You don't want to pay studio rates for a practice session.
Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President for Life, Bottlehead Corp.
Managing Director - retired, The Tape Project

Offline astrotoy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 377
    • View Profile
Re: Difficulty of recording your own album..........
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2009, 11:05:41 AM »
At the Computer Audiophile Symposium we had a chance to see one of the great recording engineers at work - Keith Johnson, of Reference Records. He was recording a piano and drum duo in one of the old Fantasy Records studios in Berkeley. It was in real time with no editing.  It gave me an appreciation for how much effort is involved in making a recording that really sounds live. He started with just a couple of mikes, but ended up with a fairly large number placed strategically and for different purposes.Her even installed a small speaker in one corner which provided a touch of ambience in the room which was too dead for his ear. Each of the many mikes, which, IIRC, were vintage, had its own power supply and preamp, all feeding into his mixing console in the adjacent room. This was not reel to reel, though Johnson is famous for his specially designed recorders which were used in the four releases on TP (Arnold Overtures and Exotic Dances from Series 1 and Nojima's Liszt Album and Church Windows from Series 2).  Reference is now doing all of their mastering in hirez 176/24. Anyway, to get the best sound from a live recording, there is quite a bit of set up involved. If you have hirez  - 176/24, you can download for free the recordings he made that day from the Computer Audiophile website.

Over the past few months I have done a fair amount of copying of vinyl to tape. These have almost all been 45rpm reissues by Classic Records and some others (like Famous Blue Raincoat).  I have done them all (about 100 reels) on R2R 15ips 2 tr, IEC Eq with my Otari MX5050 B3, using RMGI SM468 and LPR35 and Emtec SM911. They are very fine sounding, very close to the vinyl.  I also have a Nakamichi Dragon (which I bought new in the mid 80's and had tested and worked on by my local Nak technician about a year ago, which I also used as a trial. For me there was a very big difference in the sound. Particularly the dynamic range of the R2R and the ease of the sound was far superior to the Dragon. Certainly, for car cassette use, the Nak is fine (if your car is old enough to still have a cassette). I find that dolby B is necessary to record on a cassette, and the Dragon also has dolby C, which has greater noise reduction, and I think better overall sound. Of course, the dolby C limits you severely in machine playback choices. Using the Dragon would have been much more economical for me, but I really wanted the best sound for the copies. I am starting to examine hirez 24/192 for copying vinyl and some of my old R2R prerecorded tapes.   Good luck, Larry
Larry Toy CharterMember-BHReproTechnics1506/Akai747dbx/OtariMX5050B3-ClassicalVinylFreak-15Krecs-VPIHRXRimDrv-LyraSkala-HelikonMono-HerronVTSP3A/BHPhonoPre-PacificMicrosonics Model2 - Pyramix&MykerinosCard-OppoNE-Proceed AVP2+6/CVP2-CJ MET1-Cary 2A3SE-AvantgardeDuos-3Solos-VelodyneDD18Sub

Offline Red Grant

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 87
    • View Profile
Re: Difficulty of recording your own album..........
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2009, 09:16:47 PM »
What about transfering from cd?

Would r2r in 15ips be still sonically superior?

Btw. I don't like LP, I never did, can't stand "Pope and crackle".
Hyok (Tony) Kim,  yes, this is my real name.

Btw.  How do you know it's my real name?  Just because I say so?

2 Pioneer RT-2022, 4 Beocord 2000 deluxe, Beomaster 8000, 6000, 5000 (80's version), 4000,    Nikko Alpha III, Grundig RTV Receivers, Beovox  RL140 Speakers.

Offline astrotoy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 377
    • View Profile
Re: Difficulty of recording your own album..........
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2009, 09:15:02 AM »
Red, I haven't done that. For convenience and equal or maybe a bit better sound, I have been ripping my CD's as .wav files (no compression) onto a hard drive and playing back through a separate DAC.   Given the typical CD sound quality, I would guess that 7.5ips at quarter track should be fine. Others may have direct experience here. Larry
Larry Toy CharterMember-BHReproTechnics1506/Akai747dbx/OtariMX5050B3-ClassicalVinylFreak-15Krecs-VPIHRXRimDrv-LyraSkala-HelikonMono-HerronVTSP3A/BHPhonoPre-PacificMicrosonics Model2 - Pyramix&MykerinosCard-OppoNE-Proceed AVP2+6/CVP2-CJ MET1-Cary 2A3SE-AvantgardeDuos-3Solos-VelodyneDD18Sub

Offline Red Grant

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 87
    • View Profile
Re: Difficulty of recording your own album..........
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2009, 11:29:59 AM »
I emailed J-corder about it, and he told me he uses 15ips.

I guess I'll just have to find out myself, since there are so much contradicting views on this.

Hyok (Tony) Kim,  yes, this is my real name.

Btw.  How do you know it's my real name?  Just because I say so?

2 Pioneer RT-2022, 4 Beocord 2000 deluxe, Beomaster 8000, 6000, 5000 (80's version), 4000,    Nikko Alpha III, Grundig RTV Receivers, Beovox  RL140 Speakers.

Offline xcortes

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 383
    • View Profile
Re: Difficulty of recording your own album..........
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2009, 09:05:30 PM »
In Mexico City we have two classical music stations that regularly broadcast live music. Symphonies on Sundays and usually small ensembles about once a week at nights. I am in the process of getting ready to record those.

In my house I'll have a big aerial antenna, a McIntosh tuner with modaferri mods and an ATR-102 machine (I live about 30 miles from the city). At the office (for the weekdays "concerts") a Sansui tuner and a Tascam recorder (still have to figure a way to smuggle the machine in the office) with a dipole. Haven't done any recording yet as the ATR has not arrived and the Tascam is doing transport duties at home but the quality of the broadcasts, particularly the small enssembles ones is spectacular. Tonight I listened to a guitar duo at the office through my Bottlehead Sex amp through headphones and it was very, very good. Of course I plan to go with 15 ips. Tape can be cheap if you buy the spliced pancakes from the TP guys.
Xavier Cortes

Offline Red Grant

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 87
    • View Profile
Re: Difficulty of recording your own album..........
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2009, 10:28:24 PM »
BTW if it's rock you might find 15 ips sounds a little beefier than 30 ips and it will save you a lot of tape. - Doc



You know what, I've been thinking about it for awhile about it, regarding frequency response.   Maybe there's an optimal upper limit?
Hyok (Tony) Kim,  yes, this is my real name.

Btw.  How do you know it's my real name?  Just because I say so?

2 Pioneer RT-2022, 4 Beocord 2000 deluxe, Beomaster 8000, 6000, 5000 (80's version), 4000,    Nikko Alpha III, Grundig RTV Receivers, Beovox  RL140 Speakers.