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Author Topic: New Deck or Upgrade  (Read 31046 times)

Offline ironbut

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Re: New Deck or Upgrade
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2009, 06:36:03 PM »
Hi Jay,
Yes, I'm talking about the upgrades I've done to my Technics. Which is one of the reasons I've stayed out of this but I just thought I'd let you know my thoughts on the Flux head.
Regarding the Otari and Studer,.. I don't know. You may have be the one to tell us.
steve koto
 Sony scd 777es(R. Kern mods)> Vpi Aires>Dynavector XX-2mkll>Bent mu>CAT ultimate>CJ premeir 140>Magnepan 1.6qr(Jensen xover)Headphone Eddie Current Zana Deux>AT ad2000,HD800 ,Metric Halo ULN-2 (battery powered),
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Offline jcmusic

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Re: New Deck or Upgrade
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2009, 07:08:25 PM »
Hi Jay,
Yes, I'm talking about the upgrades I've done to my Technics. Which is one of the reasons I've stayed out of this but I just thought I'd let you know my thoughts on the Flux head.
Regarding the Otari and Studer,.. I don't know. You may have be the one to tell us.
Well Steve,
That may happen real soon as my new Studer A810 is on the truck, and arriving tomorrow 10/27/09. I can not wait to check it out!!! I am pretty excited!!!

Jay
Redpoint Model D TT/Soundsmith Sotto Voce Cartridge Otari MX 5050 BII/BH Tube Repro deHavilland Model 222
 Ah Njoe Tjoeb 4000, Rogue Magnum 99, Korneff 45 SET Amp, Klipsch K-Horns Bass Bins/2" Tractrix Horns 2" BMS Drivers, Vintage Tubes.

Offline ironbut

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Re: New Deck or Upgrade
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2009, 07:34:24 PM »
Cool!
Try and get some sleep and don't forget to eat!
Have fun!!!!
steve koto
 Sony scd 777es(R. Kern mods)> Vpi Aires>Dynavector XX-2mkll>Bent mu>CAT ultimate>CJ premeir 140>Magnepan 1.6qr(Jensen xover)Headphone Eddie Current Zana Deux>AT ad2000,HD800 ,Metric Halo ULN-2 (battery powered),
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Offline xcortes

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Re: New Deck or Upgrade
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2009, 07:46:51 PM »
Cool Jay,

Will you use it with your Seduction or what electronics?

What was your source for the machine? When you say "new" what do you mean?

Thanks!
Xavier Cortes

Offline jcmusic

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Re: New Deck or Upgrade
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2009, 08:42:47 PM »
Cool!
Try and get some sleep and don't forget to eat!
Have fun!!!!
Steve,
Thanks for advice and I will get some sleep, have to get up early do a few things before it arrives!!!

Jay
Redpoint Model D TT/Soundsmith Sotto Voce Cartridge Otari MX 5050 BII/BH Tube Repro deHavilland Model 222
 Ah Njoe Tjoeb 4000, Rogue Magnum 99, Korneff 45 SET Amp, Klipsch K-Horns Bass Bins/2" Tractrix Horns 2" BMS Drivers, Vintage Tubes.

Offline jcmusic

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Re: New Deck or Upgrade
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2009, 08:46:24 PM »
Cool Jay,

Will you use it with your Seduction or what electronics?

What was your source for the machine? When you say "new" what do you mean?

Thanks!
Hi Xavier,
I mean new to me, I will use it as is for now. I have alot of listening test I would like to do before making any mods or anything else. I also want to compare how it records.

Jay
Redpoint Model D TT/Soundsmith Sotto Voce Cartridge Otari MX 5050 BII/BH Tube Repro deHavilland Model 222
 Ah Njoe Tjoeb 4000, Rogue Magnum 99, Korneff 45 SET Amp, Klipsch K-Horns Bass Bins/2" Tractrix Horns 2" BMS Drivers, Vintage Tubes.

Offline stellavox

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Re: New Deck or Upgrade
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2009, 08:36:45 AM »
Update to my last post.

Spent a part of yesterday afternoon with a friend "auditioning" the Studer A810 heads (on that machine) versus the Nortronics pro (on my Stella).  Used the Project "Dances" tape. I couldn't hear any difference between them tho my friend slightly preferred the Nortronics.  Very good separation/resolution.

This has got me thinking - how do the heads on the A77/B77 compare - maybe they are just as good??? Are they (A and B) identical - anyone (able to) do(ne) some research??  If as good (or even close), could "open up" a new, inexpensive tape project machine prospect.

Someone able/want to send me a machine (with the heads wired out) so I could compare???

Charles   

Offline Brian C.

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Re: New Deck or Upgrade
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2009, 09:01:35 AM »
I think the so-so Studer electronics mask any differences.
My colleague can't wait to replace the A80 in the studio, calls it a "fog machine" and claims all the A series have sonically mediocre electronics in his experience

I'm trying to persuade him that a Stellavox SM8 with Lundahl transformers would make a good replacement.
It would certainly free up some space in a tight little control room that has become quite warm since the arrival of a full-track Ampex 300!
LOL

Brian.
Brian Clark, One Inch Studio, London, UK.

Offline jcmusic

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Re: New Deck or Upgrade
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2009, 09:50:25 AM »
I think the so-so Studer electronics mask any differences.
My colleague can't wait to replace the A80 in the studio, calls it a "fog machine" and claims all the A series have sonically mediocre electronics in his experience

I'm trying to persuade him that a Stellavox SM8 with Lundahl transformers would make a good replacement.
It would certainly free up some space in a tight little control room that has become quite warm since the arrival of a full-track Ampex 300!
LOL

Brian.
Brian,
Why do you say so so electronic's of the Studer's? This I find kinda interesting!!!

Jay
Redpoint Model D TT/Soundsmith Sotto Voce Cartridge Otari MX 5050 BII/BH Tube Repro deHavilland Model 222
 Ah Njoe Tjoeb 4000, Rogue Magnum 99, Korneff 45 SET Amp, Klipsch K-Horns Bass Bins/2" Tractrix Horns 2" BMS Drivers, Vintage Tubes.

Offline Brian C.

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Re: New Deck or Upgrade
« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2009, 10:34:33 AM »
Brian,Why do you say so so electronic's of the Studer's? This I find kinda interesting!!!

Jay

The problem is likely due to Studer's adoption of 741-type chips in the line drive. I haven't got the A80/A810/A820 schematics to hand but my PR99 has cascaded ICs there. Hence Paul S's recommendation to take unbalanced output from earlier in the chain. In the studio this is not really an option.

Anyone out there replacing Studer output cards with discrete circuitry?

Brian.
Brian Clark, One Inch Studio, London, UK.

Offline kipdent

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Re: New Deck or Upgrade
« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2009, 10:53:07 AM »
Brian--

I have the schematics but am not too techy; however, I'm sure Ki can chime in later. In any event, I believe at least the A80 is a bit different and has no cascaded ICs. It is regarded as one of the nicer sounding Studers and there are many well-known albums that were mastered on one. Anyone else know more about this?
Kip Peterson
Vintage-centric system with Apogee Acoustics Scintilla ribbon loudspeakers, Micro Seiki RX-5000 turntable and other odd bits of tube and solid state gear. Now a proud owner of a Studer A80 RC Mk II tape machine!

Offline jcmusic

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Re: New Deck or Upgrade
« Reply #26 on: October 29, 2009, 11:22:03 AM »
Brian,Why do you say so so electronic's of the Studer's? This I find kinda interesting!!!

Jay

The problem is likely due to Studer's adoption of 741-type chips in the line drive. I haven't got the A80/A810/A820 schematics to hand but my PR99 has cascaded ICs there. Hence Paul S's recommendation to take unbalanced output from earlier in the chain. In the studio this is not really an option.

Anyone out there replacing Studer output cards with discrete circuitry?

Brian.
Well I am only guessing, but I wouldn't think you could compare the PR99 to any of the A series machines. I also wouldn't think they used the same IC's.

Jay
Redpoint Model D TT/Soundsmith Sotto Voce Cartridge Otari MX 5050 BII/BH Tube Repro deHavilland Model 222
 Ah Njoe Tjoeb 4000, Rogue Magnum 99, Korneff 45 SET Amp, Klipsch K-Horns Bass Bins/2" Tractrix Horns 2" BMS Drivers, Vintage Tubes.

Offline Brian C.

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Re: New Deck or Upgrade
« Reply #27 on: October 29, 2009, 11:35:11 AM »
I know my friend doesn't like the sound of the A series after 20+ years in studios, both sides of the glass. He much prefers the sound of the 3M M79 in comparison.

Just found this outfit that sells an  "All discrete Studer A101 Opamp" replacement for the A80 "These are remakes using the original Fairchild Transistors and layout found in the original Studer A101."...

http://morrisaudioproduction.com/

Next time I'm at the studio (hopefully in the next week or two) I'll try and have a dekko at the Studer's output board to test my hypothesis in lieu of a schematic.

But I'm sure there are people here who know for sure.

Brian.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2009, 11:37:43 AM by Brian C. »
Brian Clark, One Inch Studio, London, UK.

Offline stellavox

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Re: New Deck or Upgrade
« Reply #28 on: October 29, 2009, 12:37:42 PM »

Brian,
regarding "I think the so-so Studer electronics mask any differences."

Just so we're clear here; with both decks, the heads are "wired out" and I'm using the same playback Cello electronics, so I'm trying to limit the differences to the heads.

Charles

Offline ironbut

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Re: New Deck or Upgrade
« Reply #29 on: October 29, 2009, 12:50:40 PM »
Great thread guys!
Charles,
I'm sure you already have one planned, but we're all expecting a subjective and objective review of your findings.
Keep up the good work!
steve koto
 Sony scd 777es(R. Kern mods)> Vpi Aires>Dynavector XX-2mkll>Bent mu>CAT ultimate>CJ premeir 140>Magnepan 1.6qr(Jensen xover)Headphone Eddie Current Zana Deux>AT ad2000,HD800 ,Metric Halo ULN-2 (battery powered),
 HE Audio Jades