Check out the new Tape Project website at tapeproject.com, now with online ordering. Inventory is updated every week, so stop by often to see what we have in stock.

Author Topic: Recording My Pre-Records  (Read 7091 times)

Offline jcmusic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
    • View Profile
Recording My Pre-Records
« on: November 04, 2009, 07:26:38 AM »
I want to record some of my 4track stereo 7.5ips tapes to 2track, what speed do you guys think will produce the best results 7.5 or 15ips?

Jay
Redpoint Model D TT/Soundsmith Sotto Voce Cartridge Otari MX 5050 BII/BH Tube Repro deHavilland Model 222
 Ah Njoe Tjoeb 4000, Rogue Magnum 99, Korneff 45 SET Amp, Klipsch K-Horns Bass Bins/2" Tractrix Horns 2" BMS Drivers, Vintage Tubes.

mep

  • Guest
Re: Recording My Pre-Records
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2009, 10:10:38 AM »
Jay-15 ips for the best fidelity.

Mark

Offline jcmusic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
    • View Profile
Re: Recording My Pre-Records
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2009, 10:46:47 AM »
Jay-15 ips for the best fidelity.

Mark
Mark,
Do you think there would be a noticable difference in the sound quality?

Jay
Redpoint Model D TT/Soundsmith Sotto Voce Cartridge Otari MX 5050 BII/BH Tube Repro deHavilland Model 222
 Ah Njoe Tjoeb 4000, Rogue Magnum 99, Korneff 45 SET Amp, Klipsch K-Horns Bass Bins/2" Tractrix Horns 2" BMS Drivers, Vintage Tubes.

Offline docb

  • Administrator
  • leader in spreading disinformation
  • *****
  • Posts: 1345
    • View Profile
    • Bottlehead Corp.
Re: Recording My Pre-Records
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2009, 10:59:10 AM »
Seems like the thing to do is try it both ways yourself and then make a determination.
Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President for Life, Bottlehead Corp.
Managing Director - retired, The Tape Project

Offline Brian C.

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
    • View Profile
Re: Recording My Pre-Records
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2009, 11:08:30 AM »
You must try both and make up your own mind as to what is acceptable to you Jay. I have my favourite CDs recorded at 7 1/2 because that means most will fit on one 10 1/2" reel. I get no less pleasure from the copies than I did playing the originals through my old Marantz CD-7 player. Do you want to relax and play an album right through without getting up out of your easy chair (a big factor for an old guy like me) or are you happy to reel swap?

If you settle on 7 1/2 but are then troubled by a little voice within that nags "This would sound better at 15" then you will know what to do to bring you peace of mind.

On the other hand you may find yourself enjoying the music so much you forget about absolutes - and save yourself money in the process ;o)


Brian.
Brian Clark, One Inch Studio, London, UK.

Offline jcmusic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
    • View Profile
Re: Recording My Pre-Records
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2009, 11:43:24 AM »
Seems like the thing to do is try it both ways yourself and then make a determination.
Dan I do plan on trying it myself, but I do like to hear other people's opinions. Sometimes others have different ideas or opinions as to why!!! (Example) I read where one person said that recording CD's at 7.5ips sounded more like tape than at 15ips!!!

Jay
Redpoint Model D TT/Soundsmith Sotto Voce Cartridge Otari MX 5050 BII/BH Tube Repro deHavilland Model 222
 Ah Njoe Tjoeb 4000, Rogue Magnum 99, Korneff 45 SET Amp, Klipsch K-Horns Bass Bins/2" Tractrix Horns 2" BMS Drivers, Vintage Tubes.

Offline jcmusic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
    • View Profile
Re: Recording My Pre-Records
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2009, 11:44:58 AM »
You must try both and make up your own mind as to what is acceptable to you Jay. I have my favourite CDs recorded at 7 1/2 because that means most will fit on one 10 1/2" reel. I get no less pleasure from the copies than I did playing the originals through my old Marantz CD-7 player. Do you want to relax and play an album right through without getting up out of your easy chair (a big factor for an old guy like me) or are you happy to reel swap?

If you settle on 7 1/2 but are then troubled by a little voice within that nags "This would sound better at 15" then you will know what to do to bring you peace of mind.

On the other hand you may find yourself enjoying the music so much you forget about absolutes - and save yourself money in the process ;o)


Brian.
Brian,
you make good points as well, sometime I don't won't to get up!!! Other times I don't mind!!! Thanks.

Jay
Redpoint Model D TT/Soundsmith Sotto Voce Cartridge Otari MX 5050 BII/BH Tube Repro deHavilland Model 222
 Ah Njoe Tjoeb 4000, Rogue Magnum 99, Korneff 45 SET Amp, Klipsch K-Horns Bass Bins/2" Tractrix Horns 2" BMS Drivers, Vintage Tubes.

Offline steveidosound

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 484
    • View Profile
Re: Recording My Pre-Records
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2009, 01:04:44 PM »
I want to record some of my 4track stereo 7.5ips tapes to 2track, what speed do you guys think will produce the best results 7.5 or 15ips?

Jay
In all of the above answers the question is why? Are you trying to make them sound different? Because they should not. Do you not want to turn the tapes over? Big reels with one album each @7.5ips. will do that. Do you want minimum generational degradation for some other reason - to archive the originals? Then 2 track 15ips. is the way to go.
The Tape project for instance, uses the best quality analog transfer they can make from the master tapes for their running masters they duplicate our tapes from.
Steve Williams

you don't want to know what equipment I listen to...

mep

  • Guest
Re: Recording My Pre-Records
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2009, 05:59:43 PM »
I agree with what Doc and Steve says.  Doc said try it both ways and make up your own mind.  I don't think anyone would argue that recording at 15 ips will give you the highest fidelity.  What you have to decide if it is worth the extra expense.  To me, if it is worth recording, it is worth recording at 15 ips.

Mark

Offline joeljoel1947

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 88
    • View Profile
Re: Recording My Pre-Records
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2009, 06:45:33 PM »
Yeah, all depends on the deck and how its calibrated.  Your Otari is calibrated to record differently at 7.5 and 15 ips if it was set up right.  One will sound better to you then the other, depending on who did the work and how they adjusted it.  So like Doc said, it really is "trial and error".!

  In general, recording @ 7.5 ips with commercial R2R's on all my otari's sounds the best---plus you save some tape!  I agree with whoever told you that 7.5ips sounds more tape like in recording a commercial 7.5ips tape. Comes down to a fuller midbass and bass at 7.5 ips in my Otari 7.5 ips experience recording commercial tapes.  Live recordings though?  Best by far on the Otari is 15 ips.  Can't tell you why, other then the obvious.  Just have to experiment Jay....
Regards,
Joel Kozlowski

Offline jcmusic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
    • View Profile
Re: Recording My Pre-Records
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2009, 12:51:03 AM »
Yeah, all depends on the deck and how its calibrated.  Your Otari is calibrated to record differently at 7.5 and 15 ips if it was set up right.  One will sound better to you then the other, depending on who did the work and how they adjusted it.  So like Doc said, it really is "trial and error".!

  In general, recording @ 7.5 ips with commercial R2R's on all my otari's sounds the best---plus you save some tape!  I agree with whoever told you that 7.5ips sounds more tape like in recording a commercial 7.5ips tape. Comes down to a fuller midbass and bass at 7.5 ips in my Otari 7.5 ips experience recording commercial tapes.  Live recordings though?  Best by far on the Otari is 15 ips.  Can't tell you why, other then the obvious.  Just have to experiment Jay....
Hi Joel,
I will be using my Studer to record these when I do it, I think I will try it both ways and go from there!!!

Jay
Redpoint Model D TT/Soundsmith Sotto Voce Cartridge Otari MX 5050 BII/BH Tube Repro deHavilland Model 222
 Ah Njoe Tjoeb 4000, Rogue Magnum 99, Korneff 45 SET Amp, Klipsch K-Horns Bass Bins/2" Tractrix Horns 2" BMS Drivers, Vintage Tubes.

Offline Tim

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 130
    • View Profile
Re: Recording My Pre-Records
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2009, 01:47:41 AM »
For myself, the only reason to copy a 7.5" tape is to preserve/archive it.  When archiving, you want to do the least damage possible to the sound, so 15/IEC would be the choice.  If you ever want just to listen to the tape, playing the original will always sound best (of course). One of the few weaknesses of RTR is copy degradation.  It's a lot unless you use a ridiculously good format like one inch half-track! (TTP's method)

BTW, it's a lot more difficult for a RTR to have good mechanical performance (wow, flutter,etc.) at 7.5ips.    Decks needs to be well-designed and in like-new condition.

Tim
« Last Edit: November 09, 2009, 03:40:58 AM by Tim »
Tim Leinbaugh
Service Technician
with RTR specialty.

Offline jcmusic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
    • View Profile
Re: Recording My Pre-Records
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2009, 04:16:25 PM »
For myself, the only reason to copy a 7.5" tape is to preserve/archive it.  When archiving, you want to do the least damage possible to the sound, so 15/IEC would be the choice.  If you ever want just to listen to the tape, playing the original will always sound best (of course). One of the few weaknesses of RTR is copy degradation.  It's a lot unless you use a ridiculously good format like one inch half-track! (TTP's method)

BTW, it's a lot more difficult for a RTR to have good mechanical performance (wow, flutter,etc.) at 7.5ips.    Decks needs to be well-designed and in like-new condition.

Tim
Hi Tim,
Thanks for the response and advice, I believe all three of my decks are in really good condition and two are for sure well designed!!!

Jay
Redpoint Model D TT/Soundsmith Sotto Voce Cartridge Otari MX 5050 BII/BH Tube Repro deHavilland Model 222
 Ah Njoe Tjoeb 4000, Rogue Magnum 99, Korneff 45 SET Amp, Klipsch K-Horns Bass Bins/2" Tractrix Horns 2" BMS Drivers, Vintage Tubes.