Can you believe it? Tape Project is ten years old! Thanks to everyone who has supported us in introducing studio quality tape reproduction to the audiophile community!

Author Topic: B-C tape problems?  (Read 6419 times)

Offline Gkar

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 105
  • Randy Warren
    • View Profile
B-C tape problems?
« on: January 21, 2010, 07:18:07 PM »
Hi, all, just got my first BC tape, its The Messiah and it looked fine on the reel, sounded pretty good at first (although I don't have a Dolby unit right now...)  but about halfway through the tape the loud vocal(s) would sound shrill and distorted and on the flip side it was pretty darn "wow/flutter" sounding, pretty awful!  Is this tape a goner?  Or may there be something that can be done?  I just rolled another tape and the sound is fine, so I don't think its my machine (Teac X-10Mk II), thanks!
"Music possesses far richer means of expression, and it is a more subtle medium in which to translate the thousand shifting moments in the mood of a soul." - Tchaikovsky

Offline ironbut

  • Global Moderator
  • leader in spreading disinformation
  • *****
  • Posts: 2503
  • rs1500>repro amp#1
    • View Profile
Re: B-C tape problems?
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2010, 07:43:24 PM »
Hey Gkar (btw we use our real names here),

Welcome to the forum.
If the tape sounded fine before the section that you found to be shrill and distorted, it could be a sticky tape. I don't believe I've had any problems with true "sticky shed syndrome" with BC tapes but I do have a couple that squeal. You should play the tape again and when it starts sounding shrill, turn the sound down and get close to the machine and listen to that section. It may be the tape squealing as it moves through the tape path. If so, you'll be able to hear it. That noise is transmitted to the tape and right on out through your speakers.
Like I said, if that's the case it may be something that was spilled onto the tape.
If that isn't the problem, it could be a damaged tape with any number of problems from poor handling or storage from a previous owner.


If you look at the "Beginners Guide" located above the General forum in a sticky, it goes into several of the problems that may occur with old tapes. BC's are generally in pretty good shape since most of the original owners took good care of them, but as they say,.. s**t happens, and even the most careful owner can have a coffee disaster.

I have a couple of tapes that have unknown problems. If they sound great otherwise, I hold onto them in hopes that someday I'll be able to solve the problem.
If it seems like the tape is hopeless, and the seller has a good return policy, you might want to see if you can get your money back. There are quite a few copies of that one out there.
steve koto
 Sony scd 777es(R. Kern mods)> Vpi Aires>Dynavector XX-2mkll>Bent mu>CAT ultimate>CJ premeir 140>Magnepan 1.6qr(Jensen xover)Headphone Eddie Current Zana Deux>AT ad2000,HD800 ,Metric Halo ULN-2 (battery powered),
 HE Audio Jades

Offline Gkar

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 105
  • Randy Warren
    • View Profile
Re: B-C tape problems?
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2010, 08:36:29 PM »
Thanks, ironbut, I'll give a listen with the music turned down, BTW, it just seemed as though the recorded passage(s) were overload-type distortion, I thought perhaps that someone who has heard this tape could assure me that this not in the recording, but is in my copy.  I also noticed on the flip side a "wow" or "flutter", definitely an off-speed sound, perhaps the tape is stretched.  I do notice that the tape is thinner than my other prerecs and it may be that my pinch rollers are not pulling the tape properly, most of my other tapes play find, thanks, Randy
"Music possesses far richer means of expression, and it is a more subtle medium in which to translate the thousand shifting moments in the mood of a soul." - Tchaikovsky

Offline ironbut

  • Global Moderator
  • leader in spreading disinformation
  • *****
  • Posts: 2503
  • rs1500>repro amp#1
    • View Profile
Re: B-C tape problems?
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2010, 10:52:04 PM »
It's been a while since I listened to that one but I'll do it this weekend. I know there are a few of us that have that pair of tapes and  Argo usually has fantastic sonics so at this point I'd guess it's your copy Randy.
steve koto
 Sony scd 777es(R. Kern mods)> Vpi Aires>Dynavector XX-2mkll>Bent mu>CAT ultimate>CJ premeir 140>Magnepan 1.6qr(Jensen xover)Headphone Eddie Current Zana Deux>AT ad2000,HD800 ,Metric Halo ULN-2 (battery powered),
 HE Audio Jades

Offline Gkar

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 105
  • Randy Warren
    • View Profile
Re: B-C tape problems?
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2010, 12:37:50 PM »
Hi, Steve, replayed the first tape and noted that the distortion has dropped considerably, still a bit of congestion on side 2, particularly when massed female vocals come, and the wow I was experiencing is still present, although a good bit less as well...
"Music possesses far richer means of expression, and it is a more subtle medium in which to translate the thousand shifting moments in the mood of a soul." - Tchaikovsky

Offline astrotoy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 377
    • View Profile
Re: B-C tape problems?
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2010, 01:35:49 PM »
Randy, I have the B-C Messiah tape also. Could you tell me the name of the cut where the distortion occurs? I'll check mine out. I don't remember any problems. If you feel the back of the tape very lightly where the problem occurs, you often can detect if there is a crinkle or other mechanical problem with the tape.  Larry
Larry Toy CharterMember-BHReproTechnics1506/Akai747dbx/OtariMX5050B3-ClassicalVinylFreak-15Krecs-VPIHRXRimDrv-LyraSkala-HelikonMono-HerronVTSP3A/BHPhonoPre-PacificMicrosonics Model2 - Pyramix&MykerinosCard-OppoNE-Proceed AVP2+6/CVP2-CJ MET1-Cary 2A3SE-AvantgardeDuos-3Solos-VelodyneDD18Sub

Offline Gkar

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 105
  • Randy Warren
    • View Profile
Re: B-C tape problems?
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2010, 04:42:33 PM »
Thanks, Larry, I have to listen again tomorrow to find the cuts, and will get right back!
"Music possesses far richer means of expression, and it is a more subtle medium in which to translate the thousand shifting moments in the mood of a soul." - Tchaikovsky

Offline ironbut

  • Global Moderator
  • leader in spreading disinformation
  • *****
  • Posts: 2503
  • rs1500>repro amp#1
    • View Profile
Re: B-C tape problems?
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2010, 01:13:51 PM »
Listened to my copy of the Messiah today and I didn't find any distortions. Like I said, it's been a while since I listened to this one and I've gotta say that it's fantastic! Deep soundstage, wonderful vocal sound, and the sound of the organ is spot on! I really have a soft spot for a recording that displays the musicians interpretation of the piece and this one does that in spades.

Those massed female vocals are a tough signal to reproduce though. It could easily be head wear or perhaps that the 1/4 track playback head needs a little adjustment.
Almost any problem with a reel to reel shows up in the high frequencies first and I'd venture to say that the levels that they appear on this tape would be something of a torture test for your machine.
Also try rewinding/ff the tape a couple of times before your next play. It may have some issues related to long term storage and this sometimes helps.
It could also be that the tape needs cleaning. If you plan to collect old pre records I'd suggest that you do what Larry and I do and invest in some Last Tape Preservative. It cleans and adds some dry lubricant to the oxide surface and improves high frequency response. Nothing dramatic but very worthwhile for these old tapes. It is expensive though.
Here's a link to a mini review I wrote a while back;

http://www.tapeproject.com/smf/index.php/topic,240.0.html

steve koto
 Sony scd 777es(R. Kern mods)> Vpi Aires>Dynavector XX-2mkll>Bent mu>CAT ultimate>CJ premeir 140>Magnepan 1.6qr(Jensen xover)Headphone Eddie Current Zana Deux>AT ad2000,HD800 ,Metric Halo ULN-2 (battery powered),
 HE Audio Jades

Offline Gkar

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 105
  • Randy Warren
    • View Profile
Re: B-C tape problems?
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2010, 11:38:01 PM »
Thanks, Steve, that is my primary use for the recorder, to play back old prerecs, I'll look into the Last treatment as well as work on the machine to get it to top performance, glad to have your input!
"Music possesses far richer means of expression, and it is a more subtle medium in which to translate the thousand shifting moments in the mood of a soul." - Tchaikovsky