TP-027, Jerry Garcia / David Grisman wins a Writer's Choice Award from Myles Astor of Positive Feedback Online

Author Topic: Tascam BR-20, just purchased a pair  (Read 15326 times)

Offline andy_p

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 32
    • View Profile
Tascam BR-20, just purchased a pair
« on: June 19, 2010, 06:13:27 PM »
A few days ago there was an ad on seattle craigslist in the garage sale section for an Audio Video company having a surplus sale, in the the list of equipment they listed a tascam br-20, I googled the address and got the phone number and through the day left a few messages for the person handling the sale.  Turns out they had a pair of the decks, the bad thing was they decided $1000 each was a fair price.  I told him it was a fair price to the right person and about current ebay prices blah blah.  Anyway, I told him I would drop by the second day of the sale to at least have a look.  So I went by there this morning and both decks were still there (with $1,000 stickers on each one).   I told the owner that on a recent ebay auction one had sold for under $500 that was in supposed top cosmetic and working condition (they intended to ebay anything they couldn't sell locally).  I decided to make an offer and offered $200 each, I ended up getting the pair for $450.  I couldn't believe it!  The decks are in excellent cosmetic condition and the heads looked nice (from a quick look).  I loaded them up, jumped on hwy99 and pulled over at northwest audio service to show John (an old timer with a tape machine graveyard above the shop), he was astounded at the condition of the heads, said they looked like they were never used (the company made tv commercials and I have no idea if they every really used them much, they had a lot of dat decks). 

Just hooked them up and both are working perfectly.  I'm playing an old 2-track rca perez prado tape and it sounds I think nicer than the technics rs1500 (which is still stock).  Besides being recently obsessed with tape machines (which started with a friend selling me an incredible 2-track tape collection from the 1950's, maybe 60 prerecorded tapes, all early rca, capitol, mercury, mostly good classical material) I wanted a good deck to make some dubs of the just mentioned recently aquired collection. 

And might I add, there is nothing like getting two of the same thing!!!!!
« Last Edit: June 21, 2010, 06:58:54 PM by andy_p »
Andrew Petty
VPI Aries/SDS, MCI JH 110, technics rs1500, otari mx5050 mkii, tascam br-20, creek cd60, wright sound phono ag, wright sound wpp-100c, promitheus tvc, ARC dual 75, klh model nine, quad esl 57, sonus faber concerto home

Offline Satch

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 19
    • View Profile
Re: Tascam BR-20, just purchased a pair
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2010, 10:49:17 AM »
Hey Andy,

I have a modified Tascam BR-20. Check out United Home Audio and see what they're doing with these decks. Mine is a Phase 1 deck and the Tape Project tapes sound awesome on it. I also make best-of tapes from my vinyl collection.

I'd love to hear more about your stock decks and your collection of tapes. I'm not very familiar with classical, but I love late '50's Jazz, Bossa Nova, Blues, Classic Rock, etc. I bet that Perez Prado tape sounds great.

Ray Satcher

Offline ironbut

  • Global Moderator
  • leader in spreading disinformation
  • *****
  • Posts: 2503
  • rs1500>repro amp#1
    • View Profile
Re: Tascam BR-20, just purchased a pair
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2010, 11:49:49 AM »
Congrats Andy,
And welcome to the forum.

One the things I find attractive about the BR20, being the last prosumer deck that Tascam marketed toward the broadcast industry, any of the facilities that were using reel tape at the time, could see the handwriting on the wall and many times, bought these decks to back up the ones that were currently in use.
Because of that, some of the machines that you'll find on the used market today are, like you said, barely used. Parts should still be available from Tascam too (I seem to recall that they were marketed to at least the late 90's).

It does seem strange that a TV production facility would be using these but my RS1500 came from HBO productions. If any of our members here have knowledge of how/why reel to reel was employed in video production, I'd love to hear it.
steve koto
 Sony scd 777es(R. Kern mods)> Vpi Aires>Dynavector XX-2mkll>Bent mu>CAT ultimate>CJ premeir 140>Magnepan 1.6qr(Jensen xover)Headphone Eddie Current Zana Deux>AT ad2000,HD800 ,Metric Halo ULN-2 (battery powered),
 HE Audio Jades

Offline andy_p

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 32
    • View Profile
Re: Tascam BR-20, just purchased a pair
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2010, 05:27:46 PM »
Hi, seeing the UHA decks on their website but the br20 on my radar (in the ad for the sale I wouldn't have known what a tascam br20 was, no mention of it been a r2r).  I was suprised my offer was accepted, I still can't really believe it considering the condition.  Both decks appear to run very smoothly and handle tape very well.  These being my first decks above a prosumer type deck I'm not sure what to expect in terms of overall performance but they do "feel" very well made.  Until I can luck into some sort of all out studio deck I will be in love with these machines (I have to go in and peer at them often!).  Right now I am making a 15ips dub of some vinyl just so I can play around with them (with speakers off). 

I still want to do a direct output from the heads on the rs1500 and have an external head amp.  I have been reading through some of the br20 threads on various forums to familiarize myself with what people think of the playback electronics.  It would be nice to know how to upgrade the existing the playback electronics such as they do with the uha decks (as noted by ironbut), for now I guess I will just stare in awe (they are so great because of the price!). 


Based on some of the earlier blog notes before the tape project got going about modifying a seduction phono pre to act as a head amp it makes me want to fool around with a few phono preamps to see if I can get the head impedance matched on one of the br20's (for now I don't want to really touch the machines since they are in such great shape and my experience is more limited).  I also have an otari mx5050 mkii (craigslist as nonworking for $60, but it works with a few transport issues that I think I can address).  I might start with that machine to get some experience with a direct head output first since it is in the worst cosmetic condition. 

Anyway, lots to think about.

Getting this collection of 2-track tapes was a mistake. A friend had been cleaning out a storage unit and sold me 4 boxes of prerecorded tapes (probably 150, about 60 2-track) for $80.  When I got home I saw the 2-track tapes and called him and he said he had made a mistake so I offered to compensate or just give them back or whatever, I told him I hadn't planned on selling them so he said it was ok to just keep them.  I offered them back again at a later date but he said to just keep them.  I finally got them organized and started looking up a few on ebay and saw a few that have sold for $150-$200 (yikes), these are the early rca plain box and those that immediately followed as far as I can tell.  There are maybe 20 of the rca, almost as many columbia, many mercury, everest, a few verve and other labels.  Mostly all classical with almost no jazz.  In any case I am addicted!



Andrew Petty
VPI Aries/SDS, MCI JH 110, technics rs1500, otari mx5050 mkii, tascam br-20, creek cd60, wright sound phono ag, wright sound wpp-100c, promitheus tvc, ARC dual 75, klh model nine, quad esl 57, sonus faber concerto home

Offline xcortes

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 383
    • View Profile
Re: Tascam BR-20, just purchased a pair
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2010, 07:45:30 PM »
I like the BR20s tape handling a lot. I have one in perfect shape. Since they have two playback heads you can rewire the second to a pair for external electronics. I was not successful at first because the head inductance is too low. But then I used some MC cartridge SUTs and it worked very well. I tested it for recording and I think it adds some coloration.

A very promising machine for one willing to spend time modding it, IMHO.

Be sure to use the spool function when rewinding those two tracks. And never stop or start at the middle of the reel!
« Last Edit: June 21, 2010, 09:44:40 AM by High and Outside »
Xavier Cortes

Offline ironbut

  • Global Moderator
  • leader in spreading disinformation
  • *****
  • Posts: 2503
  • rs1500>repro amp#1
    • View Profile
Re: Tascam BR-20, just purchased a pair
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2010, 08:19:17 PM »
Yes, excellent points Xavier!
Those old 2 tracks are recorded on tape with acetate backing. That's the same material that they used to use for motion pictures and it gets pretty brittle with age. So be very careful handling them since they can break very easily.
On the plus side, aside from being kinda hissy, the sound on a lot of them is wonderful. These were made in the days when reel to reel was an elite format and a great deal of trouble was endured to make these sound better than the vinyl releases of the same title. I have some early ones that have prices over $20 printed on them and those are 1950's dollars.

One of the members here has done a fantastic listing of 2 tracks which are listed on the yahoo reel to reel group. If you register there and look under the archived files of that group, Charles has saved them there in a couple of formats.
steve koto
 Sony scd 777es(R. Kern mods)> Vpi Aires>Dynavector XX-2mkll>Bent mu>CAT ultimate>CJ premeir 140>Magnepan 1.6qr(Jensen xover)Headphone Eddie Current Zana Deux>AT ad2000,HD800 ,Metric Halo ULN-2 (battery powered),
 HE Audio Jades

Offline andy_p

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 32
    • View Profile
Re: Tascam BR-20, just purchased a pair
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2010, 10:36:06 PM »
Have been taking some time to read through some of the past posts, such an incredible wealth of information on this forum.  I thought turntable tweaking was involved (this is the reel stuff!).  I can't believe some of the threads/posts here, it is just incredible.  It is amazing that I can take the time in the comfort of my own home to read such detailed accounts of all aspects of tape machines.

Hi Xcortes, I think I saw your posts about using an sut, I don't have a manual for the br-20 yet, you said there are 2 playback heads, I guess I wondering how you select? (sorry for such an obvious question).   Regarding the sut, what load or step up did you find worked best? 

I have been paranoid to play the 2-track tapes and have treated them very carefully and really take pause before loading one on a machine (I have only listened to a few and appreciate the cautions expressed so far). 

I guess what I am most interested in right now is the idea of external playback electronics, I will read more and see if I can get a better understanding on how to load the heads (sorry for any misuse of terms of concepts)
Andrew Petty
VPI Aries/SDS, MCI JH 110, technics rs1500, otari mx5050 mkii, tascam br-20, creek cd60, wright sound phono ag, wright sound wpp-100c, promitheus tvc, ARC dual 75, klh model nine, quad esl 57, sonus faber concerto home

Offline ironbut

  • Global Moderator
  • leader in spreading disinformation
  • *****
  • Posts: 2503
  • rs1500>repro amp#1
    • View Profile
Re: Tascam BR-20, just purchased a pair
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2010, 11:12:37 PM »
But wait,.. there's more! (employ your best Aussie accent when reading)

Here's a site where you can download both the owners and service manual for free. You just need to register.

http://www.hifiengine.com/manuals/tascam/br-20.shtml

Above the General forum, there are some stickies. You might find the "Beginner's Guide" interesting. It's meant to pick up where the owner's manuals leave off.

Enjoy
steve koto
 Sony scd 777es(R. Kern mods)> Vpi Aires>Dynavector XX-2mkll>Bent mu>CAT ultimate>CJ premeir 140>Magnepan 1.6qr(Jensen xover)Headphone Eddie Current Zana Deux>AT ad2000,HD800 ,Metric Halo ULN-2 (battery powered),
 HE Audio Jades

Offline andy_p

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 32
    • View Profile
Re: Tascam BR-20, just purchased a pair
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2010, 11:28:50 PM »
Thank you steve, really appreciate that link.  Also thanks for noting the hiss on the old 2-track tapes, good to know what is normal!  made a dub of a mint sgt peppers lp, just wanted to be sure the machine records, sounds pretty decent.  As a side note I see that you own a vpi aries, have you considered the rim drive?
Andrew Petty
VPI Aries/SDS, MCI JH 110, technics rs1500, otari mx5050 mkii, tascam br-20, creek cd60, wright sound phono ag, wright sound wpp-100c, promitheus tvc, ARC dual 75, klh model nine, quad esl 57, sonus faber concerto home

Offline ironbut

  • Global Moderator
  • leader in spreading disinformation
  • *****
  • Posts: 2503
  • rs1500>repro amp#1
    • View Profile
Re: Tascam BR-20, just purchased a pair
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2010, 01:15:23 AM »
Yeah, I thought about that and the Teres battery motor drive for a while but I think when I get the money to make changes in my vinyl rig, I'll probably clean house and maybe go with something completely different.
One of the other members here added the rim drive to his HR-X and likes the difference.

Congratulations on being the first KLH-9 owner here (that I know of at least). I really had a love affair with the early electrostatics that I've never totally recovered from.
steve koto
 Sony scd 777es(R. Kern mods)> Vpi Aires>Dynavector XX-2mkll>Bent mu>CAT ultimate>CJ premeir 140>Magnepan 1.6qr(Jensen xover)Headphone Eddie Current Zana Deux>AT ad2000,HD800 ,Metric Halo ULN-2 (battery powered),
 HE Audio Jades

Offline High and Outside

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 363
    • View Profile
Re: Tascam BR-20, just purchased a pair
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2010, 10:13:44 AM »
I don't have a manual for the br-20 yet, you said there are 2 playback heads, I guess I wondering how you select? (sorry for such an obvious question). 

Actually it's not obvious at all, it's one of the more obscure facts about these machines.

The requirements for record heads differ from the requirements for playback heads, and generally they are made differently. On studio recorders that creates its own problem, since the record head gets used as a playback head while doing overdubs. They just switch the record head windings in place of the play head on the tracks that are playing back, so that the new information added to the tape on the channels that are recording is physically synchronized with the material that's already recorded. If they didn't do that then all the new tracks would be a fraction of a second out of sync, and overdubbing would be impossible. All well and good, but the sound quality of the playback changes between sync playback (that's what we call it when it's played via the record head) and regular playback, and that's distracting. So some manufacturers tried to make it work with a more universal head, so there wouldn't be that difference. By the time Tascam got to the BR-20, they had a compromise head design that could be used as either a record head or a play head. They could have just made it a two head deck--cheap two head decks are in fact made the same way--but they still needed it to be a three head deck so the users could monitor the recorded tape for quality during the recording. Thus, they wound up with a three head deck, but the play head and the record head are the same part.

You wouldn't normally use the record head as a play head, but you certainly can; just select sync on the front panel (both channels please, or your left and right will be way out of sync with each other.)

Congratulations on your score, the BR-20 is a very fine transport.
Paul Stubblebine
Managing Director, The TapeProject

Offline andy_p

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 32
    • View Profile
Re: Tascam BR-20, just purchased a pair
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2010, 10:14:33 AM »
The $900 for the vpi aries rim drive or $1700 for the teres is somewhat daunting without knowing what to expect (and considering what else could be purchased).  I have a rek-o-kut idler I may start to play with.  The friend that sold me the 2-track tapes sold me the klh model nine's and the quad esl 57's (both needed work), he said that it was an opportunity for me to experience something that I might never hear in person and never know about (he said before the internet you had to write letters, make phone calls etc to track some of this earlier equipment down).  I was able to repair the model nine's (one needed a rebuilt power supply), thanks to the internet it was only a week before I was finishing the repair (and thanks to david janszen's generous help through email).  I still have the pots of beeswax in my oven (for the last few months), I need to repot the power supply!  

I downloaded the manuals and thanks again for the link, look forward to learning more about these machines.

I had intented on getting the bottlehead tape head kit, there are so many things to spend money on, after buying the br-20's a friend called me about a garage sale he ran into where they were bringing out stacks of jazz vinyl, they were all reissues from the 1980's (all mint blue note, prestige, fantasy, impulse etc), but they were $6 each which is a good buy (he had bought them when cd's hit the market and tower was starting to dump their vinyl), in any case I spent around $250 which I feel was justified because of the condition.

I may have to look into using a phono preamp with a modified front end as opposed to the bottlehead kit just because of my budget and it appeals to my sense of this being a hobby that requires research and trial and error.  

As a coincidence before I had any decks and just my tape collection someone on audiogon had a bottlehead fully modded rs1500 for sale (all upgrades, flux heads, everything), he was asking $1800 (it was $2100 for the upgrades alone).  The coincidence was he was here in my own town.  I was able to get ahold of him, I should have taken his offer to come over to listen to master tapes that he had but unfortunately did not take down his number (but the community seems small so will probably figure it out someday).  Anyway, I asked why he was selling the deck and he said he moved on to the studio decks and had a studer and ampex and felt they were superior to the modded rs1500.  

I really would like to come across a diy on how to do a higher end external head amp (like the bottlehead tube repro or cello), that is probably a fantasy I guess! I'm sure if I take the time to read through all of the posts on this forum I will get a better idea of what is possible in terms of diy (suprised at what is hiding in some of the threads).  

Andrew Petty
VPI Aries/SDS, MCI JH 110, technics rs1500, otari mx5050 mkii, tascam br-20, creek cd60, wright sound phono ag, wright sound wpp-100c, promitheus tvc, ARC dual 75, klh model nine, quad esl 57, sonus faber concerto home

Offline andy_p

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 32
    • View Profile
Re: Tascam BR-20, just purchased a pair
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2010, 10:28:53 AM »
Thanks Paul, when I was first trying playback I was selecting the different panel button options (input, sync, repro), noticed the echo effect when selecting one channel sync and one channel repro.  Nice to know this is a decent transport (and very happy about the condition).  It is nice to have two of these so I can open one up to see about trying a direct head output and to just explore (I am hoping that the head leads are relatively easily to access).  When I found doc's early posts about the rs1500 head lead mod I guess I was hooked on diy, haven't tried that yet and might start there since it is so well documented (I wanted to wait until I had a head preamp but now that I have the br-20's it might be a good place to start experimenting, some of the seduction phonos have been showing up for reasonable prices on audiogon and I might try modifying one of those).
Andrew Petty
VPI Aries/SDS, MCI JH 110, technics rs1500, otari mx5050 mkii, tascam br-20, creek cd60, wright sound phono ag, wright sound wpp-100c, promitheus tvc, ARC dual 75, klh model nine, quad esl 57, sonus faber concerto home

Offline andy_p

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 32
    • View Profile
Re: Tascam BR-20, just purchased a pair
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2010, 10:48:57 AM »
I wanted to add that the person locally selling his bottlehead modded rs1500 had said in out converstaion that tascam made nice decks but they had "terrible heads"
Andrew Petty
VPI Aries/SDS, MCI JH 110, technics rs1500, otari mx5050 mkii, tascam br-20, creek cd60, wright sound phono ag, wright sound wpp-100c, promitheus tvc, ARC dual 75, klh model nine, quad esl 57, sonus faber concerto home

Offline docb

  • Administrator
  • leader in spreading disinformation
  • *****
  • Posts: 1345
    • View Profile
    • Bottlehead Corp.
Re: Tascam BR-20, just purchased a pair
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2010, 12:07:14 PM »
Please reread the forum rules. Posting that someone anonymous expressed an opinion about something is not helpful in creating a useful resource here. The most useful information is first hand experience.
Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President for Life, Bottlehead Corp.
Managing Director - retired, The Tape Project