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Author Topic: Tape Woes  (Read 7278 times)

Offline jcmusic

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Tape Woes
« on: July 27, 2011, 04:19:00 PM »
Well this is the second time I can remember this happing to me, so it's time to find out why!!! Today I was making a recording on my Studer I had made one tape A and was happy with the results. I started on the B tape when I got finished I rewound it for playback to check the recording as I normally do, well it was during this playback I noticed the tape start to sound funny!!! Anyway after the first three songs the tape started sounding like my deck was slowing down and picking up speed (YIKES)!!! I just about went into a panic the first tape was fine this sounded like it was be drug through the heads fighting all the way!!! I check everything all looked and was working properly as far as I could tell. I put on another tape to be sure of what was going on and it sounded perfect!!! Hmm!!! Next I put the B tape on my Otari deck to be sure it wasn't the Studer, and sure enough the tape played like it was in slow motion. anyone else ever had this happen to them??? So what I am saying is it was the tape that was bad about half way through, I can't explain and don't what would cause this!!! Other than the tape formula itself any ideas???

Jay
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 12:45:48 PM by High and Outside »
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Offline ironbut

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Re: Tape Woes
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2011, 06:55:07 PM »
Hi Jay,

Bummer! I hope the it wasn't a "live" recording.

I guess the first question is what kind of tape did you use? My first guess is that there's something wrong with that tape. Sticky? Or maybe the slitting is off so the tape is too wide in spots so it's having a tough time getting through the guides?
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 12:46:04 PM by High and Outside »
steve koto
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Offline jcmusic

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Re: Tape Woes
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2011, 06:38:28 AM »
Hi Jay,

Bummer! I hope the it wasn't a "live" recording.

I guess the first question is what kind of tape did you use? My first guess is that there's something wrong with that tape. Sticky? Or maybe the slitting is off so the tape is too wide in spots so it's having a tough time getting through the guides?
HI Steve,
The tape was suppose to be new RMGI 468! Well I check my deck and can find no residue of the tape, so sticky I don't know. It may be off some in certain areas and having a tough time getting through the guides as you suggest, I don't know this is just weird!!!

Jay
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 12:46:21 PM by High and Outside »
Redpoint Model D TT/Soundsmith Sotto Voce Cartridge Otari MX 5050 BII/BH Tube Repro deHavilland Model 222
 Ah Njoe Tjoeb 4000, Rogue Magnum 99, Korneff 45 SET Amp, Klipsch K-Horns Bass Bins/2" Tractrix Horns 2" BMS Drivers, Vintage Tubes.

Offline ironbut

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Re: Tape Woes
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2011, 10:55:24 AM »
Jay,

You should probably try and record onto the tape again. Maybe do a rewind/ff and clean your pinch roller(s) and capstan before you do.
If it works, you may never really know what the issue really was but at least you'll be able to use the tape.
I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 12:46:36 PM by High and Outside »
steve koto
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Offline jcmusic

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Re: Tape Woes
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2011, 02:21:14 PM »
Jay,

You should probably try and record onto the tape again. Maybe do a rewind/ff and clean your pinch roller(s) and capstan before you do.
If it works, you may never really know what the issue really was but at least you'll be able to use the tape.
I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!
Steve,
I threw it into the trash already didn't want to take any chances with it, really weird!!! I got out another tape and recorded it today no problems.

Jay
Redpoint Model D TT/Soundsmith Sotto Voce Cartridge Otari MX 5050 BII/BH Tube Repro deHavilland Model 222
 Ah Njoe Tjoeb 4000, Rogue Magnum 99, Korneff 45 SET Amp, Klipsch K-Horns Bass Bins/2" Tractrix Horns 2" BMS Drivers, Vintage Tubes.

Offline Lance Lawson

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Re: Tape Woes
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2011, 08:55:31 PM »
RMGI 468 almost lead me to suicide!  Had grief with that stuff!  LPR-35 is as sweet as can be though.  But sss is no longer and issue or problem as a great easy inexpensive and non baking method has surfaced.  A lot of formerly bad tape may get anew lease on life and some old favorites might be rolling again.

Offline c1ferrari

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Re: Tape Woes
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2011, 09:46:02 PM »
But sss is no longer and issue or problem as a great easy inexpensive and non baking method has surfaced.  A lot of formerly bad tape may get anew lease on life and some old favorites might be rolling again.

Lance,

Can you elaborate on the non-baking method for sticky shed syndrome?  Love to hear about it!

Thanks,
Sam

Sam Lucero
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Offline ironbut

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Re: Tape Woes
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2011, 09:50:08 PM »
Never had a problem with 468 myself (at least none that couldn't be traced back,..to ME!).
Glad to hear that you're happy with the LPR-35.

Regarding sticky tapes, ever tried cold playing them (it crossed my mind a few years back that maybe the band got their name from that process,..I kinda doubt it.).
steve koto
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Offline Lance Lawson

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Re: Tape Woes
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2011, 10:01:39 PM »
Never had a problem with 468 myself (at least none that couldn't be traced back,..to ME!).
Glad to hear that you're happy with the LPR-35.

Regarding sticky tapes, ever tried cold playing them (it crossed my mind a few years back that maybe the band got their name from that process,..I kinda doubt it.).

I'm stunned at how nice the LPR-35 is.  It's the clearest crispest sounding tape I've ever used.  I find myself rolling off the highs a bit even.  I eventually got most of my 468 to run well but it took a lot of running in.  It's just a bit too wide for my transport. Couple that with it's thickness and you get strange issues.  Once it shaved itself to fit my transport it sounds just fine.  I'm told LPR-35 is very much like the old Ampex Grand Master 357/407 and that was my tape of choice when those tapes were current.

Offline Red Grant

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Re: Tape Woes
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2011, 01:37:57 PM »


Regarding sticky tapes, ever tried cold playing them (it crossed my mind a few years back that maybe the band got their name from that process,..I kinda doubt it.).


What is 'cold playing'?
Hyok (Tony) Kim,  yes, this is my real name.

Btw.  How do you know it's my real name?  Just because I say so?

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Offline ironbut

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Re: Tape Woes
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2011, 03:54:56 PM »
Hi Red,

Cold playing is exactly what it sounds like. You refrigerate the tapes overnight and play it on a machine that's well below normal room temp..
Sometimes (depending on how badly the binder is hydrolyzed), just cooling the tape will do.
Leaving the machine in a room that's exposed to the outside air during the winter (or even left outside) is how most folks do cold playing.
Cold playing is pretty accepted as a solution for "soft binder syndrome" but it is much more temporary than baking (usually just a single pass).

Actually, I think that many times when folks refer to a tape as having SSS it's actually soft binder syndrome. The difference being that there is no residue left by the tape and no sticking between the layers of tape on the reel. It's usually just squeaky.
In fact, I doubt if many folks have experienced tape with severe SSS.

A while back I bought a bunch of 1/2" 456 for super cheap. All I wanted were the flanges. I took them apart and thought that I might as well keep the 1/2" hubs so I started to remove the tape.
The SSS was so bad that not only was I unable to unravel the layers of tape, but I was having a heck of a time cutting through the layers with a razor knife. On the really bad ones, I resorted to using an electric jigsaw till it was almost to the hub, then I'd use the razor knife for the last 1/2" or so. When it was cut all the way through and I could pry it off of the hub, I was able to whack the whole stuck together mass against the wall and it still wouldn't budge. It was tough to even bend it off of the hub.
Now I seriously doubt that it could be any worse (unless it was 1 or 2 inch tape!) and eventually I gave up on saving all the 1/2" hubs.
I still can't believe I didn't cut myself once during the removal of all that @#*$ tape (over 50 reels!).

steve koto
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Offline c1ferrari

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Re: Tape Woes
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2011, 06:58:14 PM »
Hi Steve,

So -- "cold playing" wouldn't be a solution for a tape with SSS?

Thanks,

Sam
Sam Lucero
SPQCV
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Offline Red Grant

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Re: Tape Woes
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2011, 02:55:27 AM »
  I eventually got most of my 468 to run well but it took a lot of running in.  It's just a bit too wide for my transport. Couple that with it's thickness and you get strange issues.  Once it shaved itself to fit my transport it sounds just fine. 

What deck did you use your 468 on?
Hyok (Tony) Kim,  yes, this is my real name.

Btw.  How do you know it's my real name?  Just because I say so?

2 Pioneer RT-2022, 4 Beocord 2000 deluxe, Beomaster 8000, 6000, 5000 (80's version), 4000,    Nikko Alpha III, Grundig RTV Receivers, Beovox  RL140 Speakers.