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Author Topic: Tube pre-amp vs. Tube amp..........  (Read 9328 times)

Offline Red Grant

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Tube pre-amp vs. Tube amp..........
« on: October 16, 2009, 03:55:40 PM »
What would be the sonical difference?

1. R2R with solid state pre-amp with tube amp

2. R2R with tube pre-amp with solid state amp

3. R2R with tube pre-amp with tube amp?


Has anyone of you compared the combination above?
Hyok (Tony) Kim,  yes, this is my real name.

Btw.  How do you know it's my real name?  Just because I say so?

2 Pioneer RT-2022, 4 Beocord 2000 deluxe, Beomaster 8000, 6000, 5000 (80's version), 4000,    Nikko Alpha III, Grundig RTV Receivers, Beovox  RL140 Speakers.

Offline jcmusic

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Re: Tube pre-amp vs. Tube amp..........
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2009, 05:11:42 PM »
I have and use option #3.

Jay
Redpoint Model D TT/Soundsmith Sotto Voce Cartridge Otari MX 5050 BII/BH Tube Repro deHavilland Model 222
 Ah Njoe Tjoeb 4000, Rogue Magnum 99, Korneff 45 SET Amp, Klipsch K-Horns Bass Bins/2" Tractrix Horns 2" BMS Drivers, Vintage Tubes.

Offline Red Grant

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Re: Tube pre-amp vs. Tube amp..........
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2009, 05:27:25 PM »
How much better is #3 compared to #1 and #2?
Hyok (Tony) Kim,  yes, this is my real name.

Btw.  How do you know it's my real name?  Just because I say so?

2 Pioneer RT-2022, 4 Beocord 2000 deluxe, Beomaster 8000, 6000, 5000 (80's version), 4000,    Nikko Alpha III, Grundig RTV Receivers, Beovox  RL140 Speakers.

mep

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Re: Tube pre-amp vs. Tube amp..........
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2009, 05:49:10 PM »
You are never going to get the "right" answer to your question because no one will ever agree there is one "best" solution.  Those who love tubes will tell you to go with all tubes.  Those who love SS will tell you to go all SS.  Those whose gate swings both ways will tell you to mix and match.  You need to make up your own mind on which camp you belong in.   I will give you a hint though-tubes rule.

Mark

Offline Red Grant

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Re: Tube pre-amp vs. Tube amp..........
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2009, 07:18:56 PM »
   I had never listend to tube till recently.

But recently I auditioned a r2r with tube pre-amp and solid state amp, and I was blown away.  It was vintage revox, and specs were pretty bad, no matter, it was so soothing to my ears.



Hyok (Tony) Kim,  yes, this is my real name.

Btw.  How do you know it's my real name?  Just because I say so?

2 Pioneer RT-2022, 4 Beocord 2000 deluxe, Beomaster 8000, 6000, 5000 (80's version), 4000,    Nikko Alpha III, Grundig RTV Receivers, Beovox  RL140 Speakers.

Offline stellavox

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Re: Tube pre-amp vs. Tube amp..........
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2009, 10:13:37 AM »
I've listened to all present tube tape preamp contenders, I think (Seduction; Tape Repro and Manley - are there more???) and a few solid states.  However, my amp is a hybrid (tweaked Lazarus).  Have come to the realization that in my roost, tubes DON"T rule (tho' they used to).

Charles

 

Offline slbender

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Re: Tube pre-amp vs. Tube amp..........
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2009, 11:29:40 PM »
Obviously SS has become better in the 70's, 80's, 90's, and 00's than it was in the 1960's.  Tube stuff has maybe remained the same.  Last time a RTR was made with tube preamp in general was the late 1960's or early 70's.

Custom (($$$)) stuff if you can find it and afford it is likely to be superb and might give a decent fight to middle of the road or high end SS.

The next thing one must ask is for playback... Which type of head is less distorted or sounds more like Live Music??  It has been my experience, that the worst lasting heads - Permalloy... sounds more like live music using a given pre-recorded RTR tape compared to playing that same tape on either a Ferrite or Single Crystal Glass covered Ferrite head machine, but then again some other type of head that I haven't heard, might be superior and I just don't know about it.... the Dokorder Molybdenum heads, or the Kenwood Super Long Lasting Heads if installed in a given machine might be both superior sounding and long lasting. Don't know.... but maybe I'd be interested to know!

Then again, one playback preamp might also sound way better than another brand, transistor vs. transistor... or JFET's, or MosFET's might best tubes or visa-versa.  I could also point out that different transistors sound different, your double diffused Planar, Epitaxial, Double Diffused, and Triple Diffused are only a few of the more than a dozen types of parts in use out there. Then again, some purists will complain about the sonic differences between Tube and SS Diode rectifiers, versus Hexfreds in the power supply complicating things to another level, regardless of whether the actual topology of the circuitry is: Transistors, JFET's, Mosfets, or Tubes.  Then again, there's directly heated vs. indirectly heated triodes to ponder on the tube end...  So it might not only be the playback head which contributes to this sounds more like live music phenomenon.

Too bad some rich guy, with too much money and too much time on his hands never installed six types of playback heads (Permalloy; Tandberg Ferrite; Sony F&F Ferrite; Akai GX Single Glass Crystal; Dokorder Molybdenum; and Kenwood S-L-L) on one machine, preferably a really good one, enabling one to switch between any of the six heads to see which sound better/worse than the others in a direct comparison.  At least we could have one opinion.

No, No, I'm not rich enough to get to do that, nor do I have the required machine shop to be able to custom install six various types of playback head mounts in one machine and align them all for zero phase shift and Azimuth.  Then again, the electrical characteristics of these various Playback heads might vary significantly from one brand to another so a given preamp playback circuit may not be optimum for more than one or two of the six; so much stuff is proprietary or at the designers whim, or personal best guess...

If I had to guess tho.... I'd bet on option #3, as the sonic best, but it might also be a bit noisier too.


-Steven L. Bender


What would be the sonical difference?

1. R2R with solid state pre-amp with tube amp

2. R2R with tube pre-amp with solid state amp

3. R2R with tube pre-amp with tube amp?

Has anyone of you compared the combination above?

Offline jcmusic

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Re: Tube pre-amp vs. Tube amp..........
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2009, 06:41:16 AM »
How much better is #3 compared to #1 and #2?
I have never compared them, however I have used SS amps, pre-amps, with SS R2R. I think the tubes sound better in the right system!!! It just depends on what you prefer!!!

Jay
Redpoint Model D TT/Soundsmith Sotto Voce Cartridge Otari MX 5050 BII/BH Tube Repro deHavilland Model 222
 Ah Njoe Tjoeb 4000, Rogue Magnum 99, Korneff 45 SET Amp, Klipsch K-Horns Bass Bins/2" Tractrix Horns 2" BMS Drivers, Vintage Tubes.

Offline Red Grant

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Re: Tube pre-amp vs. Tube amp..........
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2011, 07:11:47 PM »
I finally decided to go either all SS, or pre-tube and SS after auditioning several times.   
Hyok (Tony) Kim,  yes, this is my real name.

Btw.  How do you know it's my real name?  Just because I say so?

2 Pioneer RT-2022, 4 Beocord 2000 deluxe, Beomaster 8000, 6000, 5000 (80's version), 4000,    Nikko Alpha III, Grundig RTV Receivers, Beovox  RL140 Speakers.