TP-028, Nat Adderley's Work Song is now available

Author Topic: Tape stuff at AES  (Read 4651 times)

Offline ironbut

  • Global Moderator
  • leader in spreading disinformation
  • *****
  • Posts: 2503
  • rs1500>repro amp#1
    • View Profile
Tape stuff at AES
« on: October 23, 2012, 09:03:07 PM »
Sorry for the short notice but this years AES Convention in San Francisco will include some very interesting looking tape related lectures. (Oct 26-29)

Friday, Jay McKnight will present "Popular Misconceptions about Magnetic Recording History and Theory?Things You May Have Missed over the Past 85 Years"
Saturday, Mike Spitz will present "The Magic of Analog Tape"
And Monday, Nadja Wallaszkovits will present "The Replay of Historical Magnetic Tape?More than Pressing the Play Button ".

I plan to be there for the first two but I don't think I'll be able to attend the conference on Monday.
Needless to say, if you can foot the bill for the full program pass, there will be tons of other great programs and the biggest problem is how to attend two at once.
Michael Romanowski will be moderating "Platinum Producers and Engineers" Sunday afternoon which looks like a must see too.

I'm sure I'm missing a bunch of other cool stuff I should be point out so if you've interested, here's the link (the detailed calender is interactive and links to details of every program).

http://www.aes.org/events/133/

steve koto
 Sony scd 777es(R. Kern mods)> Vpi Aires>Dynavector XX-2mkll>Bent mu>CAT ultimate>CJ premeir 140>Magnepan 1.6qr(Jensen xover)Headphone Eddie Current Zana Deux>AT ad2000,HD800 ,Metric Halo ULN-2 (battery powered),
 HE Audio Jades

Offline Listens2tubes

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 284
  • Reel Analog
    • View Profile
    • Listens2tubes
Re: Tape stuff at AES
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2012, 03:24:11 AM »
Let us know what you learn from the McKnights about "Does disconnecting the erasing head make a quieter recording?"
Neal - Ampex Fineline F-44, 3 - Otari MX5050BII-2, Revox A77 Mk II , Teac A 4010s, 4070, Sony TC102A, Magnecord 1020, Systemdek IIX/Dynavector Karat 17D2MKII, CEC CD3300 CDP, K Works NanoMax DAC, Van Alsine Transcendence Eight+ tube preamp, Dynaco MkIV amp pair, Paradigm Reference Studio 100 v1

Offline ironbut

  • Global Moderator
  • leader in spreading disinformation
  • *****
  • Posts: 2503
  • rs1500>repro amp#1
    • View Profile
Re: Tape stuff at AES
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2012, 04:19:01 PM »
Hey Neal,

IIRC, there was a discussion of that on the Ampex list not too long ago. I can't say that I read every post but I would think that it would be very dependent on the particular circuit/erase head design and it's execution.
In other words, that's something that would better to try in the real world rather than adding up the numbers (and quieter doesn't always equate to sounding better).

However, if Jay happens to mention it in his talk, I'll be sure and follow up and post anything that he says.
steve koto
 Sony scd 777es(R. Kern mods)> Vpi Aires>Dynavector XX-2mkll>Bent mu>CAT ultimate>CJ premeir 140>Magnepan 1.6qr(Jensen xover)Headphone Eddie Current Zana Deux>AT ad2000,HD800 ,Metric Halo ULN-2 (battery powered),
 HE Audio Jades

Offline Listens2tubes

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 284
  • Reel Analog
    • View Profile
    • Listens2tubes
Re: Tape stuff at AES
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2012, 06:42:28 AM »
I only meantion it because it is the last item in the list of topics here http://www.aes.org/events/133/historical/?ID=3197
Neal - Ampex Fineline F-44, 3 - Otari MX5050BII-2, Revox A77 Mk II , Teac A 4010s, 4070, Sony TC102A, Magnecord 1020, Systemdek IIX/Dynavector Karat 17D2MKII, CEC CD3300 CDP, K Works NanoMax DAC, Van Alsine Transcendence Eight+ tube preamp, Dynaco MkIV amp pair, Paradigm Reference Studio 100 v1

Offline ironbut

  • Global Moderator
  • leader in spreading disinformation
  • *****
  • Posts: 2503
  • rs1500>repro amp#1
    • View Profile
Re: Tape stuff at AES
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2012, 12:16:09 PM »
Hey Neal,

Well, AES was a blast. Learned a ton and attended plenty of panels, tours and workshops that were just plain fun!
Regarding Jay's talk about disabling erase heads, his bottom line was "don't". Even though there is some measurable reduction in noise, getting a tape to bulk erased consistently is a whole can of worms in and of itself.
In another lecture, Mike Spitz also chimed in on the subject. He had tried the experiment with an ATR102 and ATR tape and in his case, there was no measurable reduction of noise. He did say the the noise characteristics were slightly different but the level was identical. He also advised not to disable the erase head.

steve koto
 Sony scd 777es(R. Kern mods)> Vpi Aires>Dynavector XX-2mkll>Bent mu>CAT ultimate>CJ premeir 140>Magnepan 1.6qr(Jensen xover)Headphone Eddie Current Zana Deux>AT ad2000,HD800 ,Metric Halo ULN-2 (battery powered),
 HE Audio Jades

Offline High and Outside

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 354
    • View Profile
Re: Tape stuff at AES
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2012, 09:22:14 PM »
I went to Jay's talk...full of interesting stuff.

I really don't know why the erase question catches so many people's imaginations. There isn't much to it. Blank, bulk-erased tape is marginally quieter than tape after it has been erased by the erase head, but it doesn't really matter. You can never achieve that low noise floor anyway. Unless your erase circuit is malfunctioning (in which case you should fix it) the erase will add less noise than the bias. And we need the bias, or high quality recording is impossible. So do whatever you have to do to make your recorder quiet enough for your needs...then leave the erase head functioning as a safeguard against anything that may be previously recorded on the tape, which could include residuals from bulk erasing if it isn't done perfectly.

I liked some other parts of the talk quite a bit, but they were even more abstract than the point above, so I won't try to summarize them here.
Paul Stubblebine
Managing Director, The TapeProject

Offline ironbut

  • Global Moderator
  • leader in spreading disinformation
  • *****
  • Posts: 2503
  • rs1500>repro amp#1
    • View Profile
Re: Tape stuff at AES
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2012, 11:20:02 PM »
I agree with Paul. Jay's talk was excellent!
I still need to sit down and wrap my head around those 3D diagrams his son was using but I did get a good grasp of the rest.

Some of the other very cools stuff from this years AES;

Took a technical tour Friday PM to Bob Weir's TRI (Tamalpais Research Institute).

http://www.tristudios.com/about

Weir and 2 of his engineers gave us a tour of the facility and the Meyersound Constellation System which was amazing!

http://www.meyersound.com/products/constellation/

We were even given a chance to do a little hands on with it.
The place was awesome (4 Studer 820's, 3 multitrack and 1/4" half track) with tons of instruments, recording gear and Grateful Dead stuff.
Doc might want to look closely at the tan colored speakers above the API console in the pictures of Control rm B. They might look a little familiar (I was shocked!).
I woulda said something but after identifying a mint Nagra large reel adapter, I'd had my moment in the sun.
On top of getting a chance to check out the place and getting a tour from Bobby himself, they served us some tasty treats and microbrews.
Really the nicest folks you could wish to meet.

Michael Romanowski hosted a wonderful event "Platinum Producers". In fact it seemed like producers were the focus of a number of the workshop/panel/events.
Really enlightening (and it's still sinking in).

Even though I was dog tired by the end of the weekend, I was trying to figure out how I could afford to go to AES in NYC next year!

steve koto
 Sony scd 777es(R. Kern mods)> Vpi Aires>Dynavector XX-2mkll>Bent mu>CAT ultimate>CJ premeir 140>Magnepan 1.6qr(Jensen xover)Headphone Eddie Current Zana Deux>AT ad2000,HD800 ,Metric Halo ULN-2 (battery powered),
 HE Audio Jades

Offline c1ferrari

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 167
    • View Profile
Re: Tape stuff at AES
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2012, 10:56:06 PM »
Steve,

Thanks for the link to TRI...awesome!
Sam Lucero
SPQCV
:-)

Offline docb

  • Administrator
  • leader in spreading disinformation
  • *****
  • Posts: 1345
    • View Profile
    • Bottlehead Corp.
Re: Tape stuff at AES
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2012, 04:59:44 PM »
Doc might want to look closely at the tan colored speakers above the API console in the pictures of Control rm B. They might look a little familiar (I was shocked!).
I woulda said something but after identifying a mint Nagra large reel adapter, I'd had my moment in the sun.

Yeah all us golden ears use 'em. Steve is referring to the optional speakers in our 1956 Telefunken Salzburg console home stereo system, which I restored after we moved the Bottlehead reference system to Bottleheadquarters a couple years ago.
Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President for Life, Bottlehead Corp.
Managing Director - retired, The Tape Project

Offline Listens2tubes

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 284
  • Reel Analog
    • View Profile
    • Listens2tubes
Re: Tape stuff at AES
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2012, 09:24:47 PM »
That's really cool!
Neal - Ampex Fineline F-44, 3 - Otari MX5050BII-2, Revox A77 Mk II , Teac A 4010s, 4070, Sony TC102A, Magnecord 1020, Systemdek IIX/Dynavector Karat 17D2MKII, CEC CD3300 CDP, K Works NanoMax DAC, Van Alsine Transcendence Eight+ tube preamp, Dynaco MkIV amp pair, Paradigm Reference Studio 100 v1

Offline steveidosound

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 484
    • View Profile
Re: Tape stuff at AES
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2012, 10:19:37 AM »
Doc might want to look closely at the tan colored speakers above the API console in the pictures of Control rm B. They might look a little familiar (I was shocked!).
I woulda said something but after identifying a mint Nagra large reel adapter, I'd had my moment in the sun.

Yeah all us golden ears use 'em. Steve is referring to the optional speakers in our 1956 Telefunken Salzburg console home stereo system, which I restored after we moved the Bottlehead reference system to Bottleheadquarters a couple years ago.

1956 - Stereo, from... tape?
AFAIK that pre-dates stereo records  by a year and stereo FM by 7 years. At least in the US. Did Europe have either earlier?
Very cool Doc,  give us the lowdown, what's she got?
Steve Williams

you don't want to know what equipment I listen to...