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Author Topic: Where do you go to buy machines?  (Read 5232 times)

Offline c.cash

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Where do you go to buy machines?
« on: January 21, 2015, 03:15:48 PM »
Hi all, searching for this broad subject hasn't been fruitful:

Where do you / would you go to look for a used reel-to-reel machine? Is eBay the favored route?

Thanks!
« Last Edit: January 28, 2015, 02:42:18 PM by c.cash »
-Curt, Re-Recording Mixer, Warner Bros. Pictures

Offline High and Outside

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Re: Where do you go to buy machines?
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2015, 08:30:25 PM »
Hi Curt.

It might depend on what kind of machine you're looking for.

We don't have a problem with eBay per se, but there are two potential problems with buying there. First, the sellers all seem to describe the machines as mint, but they just don't have any way to test them, so you have to accept the machine as is. Our experience is that what to these sellers is "Mint" is what we tend to call "Beat To Death."  Second, our experience with shipping machines has been dreadful. Nobody knows how to pack them. Even the people who give it a good honest try just don't know what it takes. Having the UPS store put it in an oversized cardboard box and filling it with packing peanuts is a recipe for disaster.

If you're looking for a pro-sumer machine like an Otari 5050B or a Technics 1500, I think you're better off with Craigslist. You can see the machine before forking over your dough, and you can put it in your car and drive it home yourself.

If you want a studio machine, at least you have geography on your side. There are probably more of them in the LA basin than anywhere else on earth. If you find one you like locally on eBay you can ask for an inspection before you commit to buy. They also show up on Craigslist. And you may know someone in the studio business --especially the studio maintenance business-- who knows of machines for sale.

Good hunting.
Paul Stubblebine
Managing Director, The TapeProject

Offline docb

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Re: Where do you go to buy machines?
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2015, 11:18:17 AM »
I can elaborate a bit on the packing issue. For a while we were doing machine mods at Bottlehead. Customers could send us a Techncs RS1500 or Otari MX-5050B series deck for tape path mods and playback head rewiring. In the process we developed a packing box that consisted of a 24" x 24" x 12" double wall 200lb corrugated box,  some ridiculously expensive but very effective slab foam from Uline and a large piece of felt to cover the front panel and controls. (Thanks to Jeff Jacobs at J-Corder for the basic idea)

We would offer this box to customers to pack the deck in, so we knew it would arrive here in good shape. The big flaw in this plan was ebay sellers refusing to use our box and ebay buyers refusing to have the deck shipped to them for examination before sending it to us for mods. About once a month we would receive from UPS a large round cardboard container from some ebay seller, that sounded like a maraca when you shook it and bled packing popcorn through the torn open corners. Inside would be the remains of a tape deck, at that point a write off for the customer and a pile of junk for us to dispense with. We no longer do work on decks.

I still have a pile of parts in my basement that is the remains of some number of MX-5050s. Not even sure how many. So if you buy a deck, make the seller describe exactly how he will pack it and how much he will insure it for. If you are buying studio quality deck, my advice is just man up and buy a flight case for it. When we started the project we went out and bought every deck we thought might be suitable for playing our tapes so we would have direct experience to share about its usage. Paul found a good deal on a nice Studer on a roll around. The seller just stretch wrapped it to a pallet, naked! Hopefully some day we can find replacements for the spindle and other parts that snapped off when it was clobbered in shipping.
Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President for Life, Bottlehead Corp.
Managing Director - retired, The Tape Project

Offline High and Outside

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Re: Where do you go to buy machines?
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2015, 01:55:29 PM »
Paul found a good deal on a nice Studer on a roll around. The seller just stretch wrapped it to a pallet, naked! Hopefully some day we can find replacements for the spindle and other parts that snapped off when it was clobbered in shipping.

Actually he didn't even put it on a pallet, just wound a couple of layers of stretch wrap around it and rolled it on to the truck. This was an eBay seller who advertised that he used exceptional care in packing. Then he was so hard nosed about the damage that I eventually just wrote it off as a learning experience.

That must have been five years ago. I finally found enough replacement parts, and the whole pile is in a tech's shop. I may actually get a machine out of it yet.

Anyway, this is one story of many. May it give you some appreciation of how we came to our attitude about eBay sellers and shipping.
Paul Stubblebine
Managing Director, The TapeProject

Offline c.cash

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Re: Where do you go to buy machines?
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2015, 02:18:21 PM »
Thanks gentlemen! I'm actually selling a machine, but forum rules are specific about not advertising so that's all I'll say. However, your comments are very useful and timely because I've been contemplating how to pack it properly. The best boxes I could find are a heavy-duty 24" square double-walled (which is huge) and a 20x18x12 (a good fit, but just using that box alone would be risky).

So far my plan is to wrap the deck in a layer or two of bubble wrap and pack it snugly into the smaller box. The small box will go in the 24" box. I'm just not sure how to fill the dead spaces. You've talked me out of popcorn (although I think you're talking about the deck just floating in popcorn in one box). Foam sounds like my best bet. Not cheap, but I want it to arrive in perfect condition. Lucky for me there's actually a store called Foam Mart near me!
-Curt, Re-Recording Mixer, Warner Bros. Pictures

Offline docb

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Re: Where do you go to buy machines?
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2015, 02:46:27 PM »
Popcorn is probably OK between the two double wall boxes, but don't count on it at all right around the deck. Think about all the stuff that would snap off - knobs, feet, switches and all the thin metal panels that would bend. Then strategically place your foam (I recommend 2" thick) to cover and pad those bits. The packing material should be somewhat snug so the deck can't move inside the box. But don't use anything that might rub and burnish the finish (hence our use of felt over the front panel). The last time I hired a "professional packing service" they built a nice stout wooden box - then used hex cell cardboard right against the front panel of an RS1500 which created a gnarly hexagon pattern of worn paint on it's way from Seattle to Vegas.

If you happen to be selling an MX-5050B series you might want reinforce the power transformer inside the chassis. I have seen two or three that broke loose in shipping and totaled the inside of the deck.

Being a UPS deliverer is a tough job and they have my sympathy. But I also understand - from watching our guy grab too many boxes at once and drop the top one onto the asphalt just about every other time he does our daily pickup - that as the packer you simply HAVE to assume that the box will be at the very least dropped six feet, likely caught at the corner of the conveyor at the sorting facility and thus accordion pleated, and occasionally  run over by the truck.
Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President for Life, Bottlehead Corp.
Managing Director - retired, The Tape Project

Offline c.cash

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Re: Where do you go to buy machines?
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2015, 04:08:44 PM »
Thanks Doc, good advice. I used to unload trucks in college for a certain well-known package delivery service. It was MUCH faster to unload a truck if the "walls" of boxes had fallen down. Sometimes... for some individuals, they just fell... that's all I'm sayin'.
-Curt, Re-Recording Mixer, Warner Bros. Pictures