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Author Topic: Sony APR-5000  (Read 12270 times)

Offline TonyB

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Sony APR-5000
« on: April 04, 2008, 06:24:23 PM »
I am looking for a Tpe Project machine. Locally I can have Sony APR-5000 with supposedly only 30 hours on it, MX-5050, MCI JH110, Studer A810 and 1990's Teac. The MX-5050 would be the cheapest. Any suggestions?

How much are APR-5000 going for? I did not see any references to its price, just comments about hard to get parts.

TIA,

TonyB

Offline ironbut

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Re: Sony APR-5000
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2008, 07:59:13 PM »
The Sony/MCI and the Studers are all wonderful machines to be sure. But, for a machine to listen to Tape Project and other pre recorded tapes, the 5050 would be you best bet. Large studio machines are,.. large and very expensive to maintain. An APR 5000 with only 30 hours on it sounds innocent enough, but if it hasn't been run recently, it could easily cost thousands to get it running properly. The prices vary on condition and options. I've never seen a full refurbished one for sale but most seem to sell for under $2k. I'd think that a refurbished one would be closer to 3-5k.
If you have plenty of money and room, that's a different story. But, if you're like most of us, it's better to spend the extra dough on one of Doc's repo amps (if you look at the Tape Project home page under machines).
 The Otari's are making some inroads around here lately. More folks are looking at them as a logical subject for modding and upgrading. They are plentiful (which makes finding one you can actually try out and see in person pretty likely) and have been real workhorses in radio and project studios.
What machine is best for you, depends a great deal on whether you enjoy doing any DIY work. If you don't, I think the choice is pretty simple. Have Doc set-up a machine with a repo amp, plug in your favorite tubes and cables and enjoy.
steve koto
 Sony scd 777es(R. Kern mods)> Vpi Aires>Dynavector XX-2mkll>Bent mu>CAT ultimate>CJ premeir 140>Magnepan 1.6qr(Jensen xover)Headphone Eddie Current Zana Deux>AT ad2000,HD800 ,Metric Halo ULN-2 (battery powered),
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Offline TonyB

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Re: Sony APR-5000
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2008, 07:35:04 AM »
Hi Steve,

Thank you for your reply. MX-5050 seems like the easiest way to get into the Tape Project. Would not it be funny to have a playback amplifier 20x - 40x more expensive than the deck itself? I know of local 3 sources for MX-5050. I am going today to see a place that has a few of them. That place also has Studer A807 but the owner does not want to sell it.

I have a dedicated listening room but all my equipment is in a small separate room. This room is taken by 2 bass horns and a shelving unit with LPs. So there is not much room left. I have one rack there and will have to squeeze another rack for the other equipment. So a stove sized R2R is virtually out. That is what goes against APR 5000 (even though the price is good), JH 110 and Ampex 440B which I can also get locally.

I would DIY to death but I am married with kids. So time is a big problem. It means that I will have to likely buy a playback amp. The other R2R I would like is a Studer A80 but there is nothing local.

Regards,

TonyB

Offline ironbut

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Re: Sony APR-5000
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2008, 10:25:12 AM »
From my own experience, considering the prices on Otari 5050B2 mk2's, or even the more expensive Technics machines like I have, that for folks with a "normal" income, you can save the money on the deck and put it toward a repo amp. There is nothing that you can buy that will make even half of the impact on the quality of sound as much as getting one of those repo amps! That's not to say that getting a $10K+ full blown studio machine won't improve the sound. It will. But at the end of the day, you'll still need to get a repo amp or something similar if you want to get even close to the sound I'm getting with my Technics>repo amp.
BTW welcome to the forum.
steve koto
 Sony scd 777es(R. Kern mods)> Vpi Aires>Dynavector XX-2mkll>Bent mu>CAT ultimate>CJ premeir 140>Magnepan 1.6qr(Jensen xover)Headphone Eddie Current Zana Deux>AT ad2000,HD800 ,Metric Halo ULN-2 (battery powered),
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Offline TonyB

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Re: Sony APR-5000 - Studer A807
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2008, 06:39:39 AM »
Hi Steve,

Thank you for your velcome.

I went to see the MX-5050's. A couple of original MX-5050 looked dead and I could have had them cheap but there was no more room in my car. The other two MX-5050BII were well used. I could not see tape path through oxide deposits and all heads had pretty deep grooves from tape wear. I thought that $250 was a bit too much considering that I would have to replace at least the playback head.

So I picked up Studer A807 with a bridge and a trolley in better shape :-) I will re-cap it and back up the EPROM and EEPROM. Unfortunately, the pinch roller is gone after 18 years and it has a bit of egg shape  :-( Well, one cannot win always. I am looking at the service manual and found out that there is MK I and MK II and earlier and later models on top of it. Otherwise, the A807 has OP AMPs galore and I will have to bypass all of them for playback with the repo amp or equivalent.

So this is a question for Studer experts: What are good and "cheap" sources for A807 pinch roller?

Is the A807 pinch roller the same as in A810 or A812?

Are there any instructions how to re-lap heads?

TIA,

TonyB

Offline docb

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Studer 807
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2008, 02:22:38 PM »
Hi Tony,

The place you want to go for this kind of info is Fred Thal's Studer list, found at recordist.com. There's a huge amount of Studer knowledge over there. Be sure to state exactly what model you have. I would be inclined to ask John French at JRF Magnetics to lap the heads. The fee is not that high and he will actually measure the head for you to show you the performance level after lapping.

Not sure what you would consider cheap, but you might try Athan for the pinch roller. They make one in urethane for $100. You might also find someone who can resurface the existing one. The Studer list guys will know what the best approach is.
Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President for Life, Bottlehead Corp.
Managing Director - retired, The Tape Project

Offline mstcraig

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Re: Sony APR-5000
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2008, 08:02:07 PM »
Tony, the person to send your pinch roller to is Terry Witt (www.terrysrubberrollers.com). He has a sterling reputation, reasonable pricing and quick turnaround. Give him a shout. Craig
Craig Sypnier
(Magnepan, VPI, Sumiko, Shure,
Belles Research, ReVox (A-77 and B-77), Scully 280-B, Teac A-2300SD, Nordost)

Offline TonyB

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Re: Studer A807
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2008, 07:18:00 AM »
Thanks DocB and Craig.

I found Athan and I will decide between getting a new pinch roller or getting it re-worked. I have spent last evening cleaning the tape path. One would not believe how much can be accumulated after 18 years. I thought that the tape lifters vere made from brown plastic. Well, after a lot of cleaning I discovered that they are steel. I think at least one is supposed to turn. But since they were completely covered with baked on oxide, there are flat spots and I will have to get new ones.

I tried to subscribe to Studer list some 10 days ago but somehow it did not go through. I will try again. I got a quote from Greg Orton for an extended response playback head. I will get it when there are finances for it (after Tape Project membership).

I had a look at Studer A807 schematics. It is a pretty complicated machine with microprocessor control to give studios easy cueing and other controls, together with quick selection of equalizations. But the audio portion is designed like a typical PRO circuit. I am not surprised at all that recorded music sounds as it does and if it was not for the Tape Project, I likely would not bother. The playback path (without VU and level adjustment portion) goes through 1 transistor, 12 OP AMPs, some DACs and 14 (!) electrolytic capacitors ranging from 4.7uF to 100uF. Recording path is similar. So that is what we listen when we play anything - LP, CD or tuner. Repo amp or eq. is the only way to go. Or, how will Studer A807 look with Ampex 350 electronics? :-)

Regards,

TonyB

Offline docb

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Re: Sony APR-5000
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2008, 11:31:56 AM »
Just a note, the Ampex 350 electronics were designed to work with the old Ampex heads. You might find you need to tweak the input loading to get the best results with more modern heads.
Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President for Life, Bottlehead Corp.
Managing Director - retired, The Tape Project

Offline ironbut

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Re: Sony APR-5000
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2008, 05:53:32 PM »
Tony, the Studer list takes it's own sweet time processing new applications. I seem to remember it took over 2 weeks for mine. I totally forgot about it, and wham,..
The Ampex 350/351 electronics are commanding pretty high prices. Lots of folks are using them for mic pre's so look out. If you want to check out a great page with the restoration of a 351 check out the link below.

http://ampex.hughescatalog.com/
steve koto
 Sony scd 777es(R. Kern mods)> Vpi Aires>Dynavector XX-2mkll>Bent mu>CAT ultimate>CJ premeir 140>Magnepan 1.6qr(Jensen xover)Headphone Eddie Current Zana Deux>AT ad2000,HD800 ,Metric Halo ULN-2 (battery powered),
 HE Audio Jades