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Author Topic: I'm really pissed off  (Read 15579 times)

Offline Ben

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Re: I'm really pissed off
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2009, 01:44:14 PM »
Umm Library.  Do you have cassette or R2R for music? 
I was looking at some 45 re-issuses ( 180 gram ) for the said $50 last night
and it seems  that the TP just came out a little earlier than them.
I wonder how much TP influence had in bring out the 45's.
If I had a turntable, the 45's would be a addition to my music system
rather than reason not have a R2R.
Set 45,Open baffle speakers,Otari 5050,,Pioneer DV-79AVi DVD/CD/SCAD player

Offline ironbut

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Re: I'm really pissed off
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2009, 01:46:29 PM »
Hi Joe, that's great that more folks are getting acquainted with the library system. I've alway thought it was a great asset to any community and is often taken for granted and under used. There's nothing better that having a comfortable, quiet place to sit and learn. I use mine like an oasis or if I have something I need to work on with no distractions. And they have an awesome AC system too!
steve koto
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Offline astrotoy

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Re: I'm really pissed off
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2009, 03:10:17 PM »
Thanks, too, to MEP for his analysis and Doc's update. I started and ran a non-profit foundation for 10 years until I retired 16 months ago. It grew from one person to over 120 full time employees and $30M in annual revenue. By the time I retired we had about $2.5M in essentially fixed costs (administrative, financial, rent, insurance, communication, travel, etc.)  That was a lot, but only about 7.5% of our annual revenue. For much smaller operations, the overhead is much larger with less economy of scale. What is very clear to me is that all of us benefit from the fact that Doc, Paul and Romo are charging us for only a little if any of the fixed cost portion of the Bottlehead business that the Tape Project represents. We are essentially paying for the marginal costs (it would be llike paying Microsoft for Office or Windows and only paying for the packaging and discs)  and some depreciation for the equipment and some, but not all, of the labor costs. Since there is very little economy of scale (real time duplication with close QC monitoring), raw material that cannot be purchased in enough quantity for signficant volume discounts, high level customer service, etc. I think we have to bit the bullet on the price. Also, unlike other high end purchases (fancy cars, watches, designer clothes, private planes, etc.) this kind of pursuit of audio nirvana does not attract just the very wealthy who will often buy something just because it is exclusive with little consideration of price. So price is important, but quality of product is more important.

One piece of advice for Doc. Under promise and over deliver. For example, it probably would have diffused many of the concerns if you had signaled earlier about the price increase, even if it was only a guesstimate on the high side. Also, with a year plus production experience under your collective belts, it may be good to give overly long estimates of delivery times, to take into consideration potential shortages of raw materials (like the tape shortage), equipment breakdowns, problems with packaging materials, inefficiencies from having to fill partial orders, or late orders, etc. So when the price comes in at or lower than your signal and the product gets delivered earlier than promised, the customer is very happy. For example, it was a very good idea to change from dating the series' to numbering them.

We are very fortunate to be part of this wonderful project. Thank you Doc and Paul and Romo for the vision to put this together and the energy and spirit to keep it going.

Larry

   
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ceved

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Re: I'm really pissed off
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2009, 06:24:22 PM »
I am not quite at the point where I am willing to thank the TP for not charging more money, however if we could all agree on the following perhaps we could obsess on some other aspect of the rtr experience.
1. TP tapes are premium products which command an appropriate price structure.
2. Regrettably some people may not be able to afford to pay this price without personal sacrifice.
3. The state of the economy has magnified the affordability issue for some subscribers.
4. Both TP owners and subscribers are exercising free will in all aspects of this process.
5. For the most part the TP is a cottage industry done in 'disposable personal time'.
6. Some economies may result as the learning curve straightens out, but for the most part;
7. It is what it is, and that is not necessarily bad by any means.
8. Some subscriber anxiety is not so much the price as the cash flow requirements.
9. We all enjoy listening to music.
10. Do original charter subscribers still get a complimentary TP take up reel?
(I threw that in to see if you were paying attention)

Has anyone heard from Robert lately?






« Last Edit: January 14, 2009, 07:58:58 PM by ceved »

Offline mstcraig

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Re: I'm really pissed off (was "Re: 2nd series titles")
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2009, 09:34:11 PM »
Since I saw no way to reply to the original thread noted above, I will do some followup here. First to Paul Joppa: No, I wasn't speaking to you with regard to the 'curt' comment. I was, instead, speaking of Paul Stubblebine. I agree wholeheartedly with Larry regarding under promise and over deliver to management when dealing with your paying customers. As for Steveidosound saying, "I will be happy to just get my 6 and enjoy what I have unless or until I undergo a massive change for the better financially", when I can finally join you as a subscriber, I will, too, echo those sentiments myself. Finally, to Doc: No one is questioning your group's commitment to this project. My suggestions, as already given, are simply in light of the fact that there are problems with cost going up. As anyone who knows me will tell you, I'm a problem solver. That's what I do. You may not like or agree with the solutions I give, but they are solutions nonetheless. Ultimately, what bothers me the most is my dream of having this kind of quality reproduction in my own home is slipping away from me. Unless something drastic changes, I simply will have to fold my dealt hand, and walk away from the table. That's life, I suppose.
Craig Sypnier
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Offline MylesAstor

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Re: I'm really pissed off
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2009, 07:42:27 AM »
Umm Library.  Do you have cassette or R2R for music? 
I was looking at some 45 re-issuses ( 180 gram ) for the said $50 last night
and it seems  that the TP just came out a little earlier than them.
I wonder how much TP influence had in bring out the 45's.
If I had a turntable, the 45's would be a addition to my music system
rather than reason not have a R2R.

Ben:

Not sure where u got your 45 rpm info from?  The 45 rpms, namely Analologue Productions, came out way before the tape project w3as ever a glimmer in Doc's and colleagues eye. There wasn't any connection to the tape project promoting the 45rpms. The 45 rpms are btw, esp. Chad's Riversides and Pablo reissues, simply outstanding.The better the system gets, the more one appreciates just how good a job SH did in mastering these gems.

Myles

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Offline JoeG

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Re: I'm really pissed off
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2009, 10:24:42 AM »
For example: one of the releases set for Series II is "Church Windows" a Respighi composition. It was released on heavy vinyl at 45 rpm in the late 1980's, as was RR's "Dafos" with Mickey Hart, Airto, Flora Purim.

180 and 200 g 45 rpm new releases and reissues have been around for quite some time. Some reissues are now out of print: The 45 rpm of the Mercury "Firebird" w/ Dorati and the LSO. Hard to find and even pre-owned ones command in excess of $250.00. Roger Waters' "Amused to Death" two-disc 33 1/3 rpm goes for well over $300.00.

It's all about the individual desire and willingness to pay. I won't question anyone's motivation, be it cache, exclusivity, or love of music. It doesn't matter.

Ben-
Sorry, no cassettes or RtoR. We did do vinyl back in the day though. An upside to this job, we get thousands of donations of LPs for our book sales, and I go through before they hit the sale rack..
Joe Galbraith
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Offline Ben

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Re: I'm really pissed off
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2009, 01:46:16 PM »
It just seems strange I missed the web links for 45's. The TTP I always heard
about , but the lack of a deck and good speakers kept me from even thinking
about buying. I knew they were reissuing LP's, but 45's I only found out with
the grumbling over series II tape prices.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2009, 01:47:55 PM by Ben »
Set 45,Open baffle speakers,Otari 5050,,Pioneer DV-79AVi DVD/CD/SCAD player

Offline TomR

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Re: I'm really pissed off
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2009, 04:10:57 PM »
Try www.acousticsounds.com as a starting place for the 45's. They have everything in print, and also a few out of print and used items.
Thomas Ream

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