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Author Topic: Price increase  (Read 6329 times)

Offline ironbut

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Price increase
« on: January 11, 2009, 03:04:06 AM »
I can imagine that this price increase is going to be a pretty hot topic for a while here and I thought I'd like to express my thoughts. My initial reaction to seeing the increase was a little panicky and wondering if I'd be able to afford it. When the panic wore off a little, I knew my worries were whether I'd be able to take advantage of the special offer to continuing subscribers. And now, I know that if I were to have to pay the higher price, it wouldn't be the first time (or the last) that I've had to pay a premium in money in exchange for the lifestyle I lead ( no loans/no credit kinda kook ).
That said, Ben had mentioned that he hadn't kept up with the price of tapes and I was going to tag this post under his, but I thought it might be better served to start a new thread.

I have been keeping up with the price of RMGI tape and it took a considerable jump early in 2008. Knowing the margins that the Tape Project was operating on, I was afraid that the prices would have to go up then ( or worse!). I think that the guys have been making up the difference since then. That and having to pay someone to do the full time job of duplicating these tapes in real time and the increases in packaging and the custom reels resulting from the weak dollar, that just about takes care of the price increase.
Believe me, it couldn't have come at a worse time for me but I know that these tapes are worth the new cost to me. It wasn't easy for me to pay the series one subscription fee but I found a way to do it anyway. And I'll find a way to do it this time too.

I've been in this hobby for a long time now and I think one of the things that we're all in search of here is a chance to touch greatness. Or to be more exact, for greatness to touch us. I won't sit here and tell you that I know why music touches our souls the way that it does but there's no denying it. And once I heard a couple of bars of the first tape on Paul's mastering system, I knew that everything else would sound like a grainy out of focus Polaroid looks. So to me, it's like owning the musical equivalent to a sculpture by Rodin or a etching of Albrecht D?rer. Except in this case, it's Sonny Rollins or Malcom Arnold . And in the case of albums produced in studios, I believe that we are the audience to whom they're playing to. So to me, recordings of great music are just as important as sculptures or etchings.

 I'm not sure about you guys, but I've never made an upgrade to my system that was even close to the improvement that these tapes have made. That hasn't stopped me from spending $700 on a power cord or $300 for a pair of tubes. I consider it all a part of this grand experiment we call audio. And while the audio press would like us to spend way more on gear than the music we play on it, that's what is in their better interest not necessarily ours.
So I guess when I think about all the soul searching I had to do and the budgeting I had to make when I first signed up for this, and then I weight that against the pleasure and excitement that each tape has given me, it isn't even close.


So when do I get to hear "Brilliant Corners" and have T. Monk make a visit to my listening room?
steve koto
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Offline jcmusic

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Re: Price increase
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2009, 07:39:10 AM »
You are right about this being a hot topic for awhile, anyway I do agree with you on most if not all of what you said. I too will find a way to pay the increase!!! It just kinda hit me at the wrong time, as I said before; I still only have three of the first six tapes I odered and I only can see five titles of the second series. I feel in the long run I will be glad I stayed with the TP, It is just a combination of the waiting, reading others post that have the tapes, and now a significant price increase kinda all at the same time that is a little frustrating.

Jay
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Offline xcortes

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Re: Price increase
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2009, 09:55:00 AM »
Nobody likes paying more. I guess some people had false expectations that with more suscribers and scale TP tapes would eventually be offered for less. If you consider the cost of materials and labor to produce these tapes, add to that the license and there's not much extra to pay for the TP's team for their time, efforts, recover their investment and eventually make some profits.

The only commitments made by the TP to first series suscribers were two: that they would continue to release tapes (somehow easing the investment in hardware) and that charter suscribers could rollover their suscriptions to keep their #. They are keeping their promises and in top of that they have been announcing very good titles AND have offered a sbstantial discount on series two to us that have been with them since the start.

The Tape Project is not a business project. Anyone failing to see that doesn't understand its essence. It is a music related venture that will provide us and hopefully those after us with musical experiences not available before to many.

When we first heard of the Project we though $200 for an album was too much. How many think now that $200 is too much after having shared, say, the Exotic Dances tape in your own living room with those that are close too you?

We can keep on dreaming that the increased demand for analog music will foster other releases and even drive down the prices for materials but in the meantime I for one am commited to supporting "the guys", as Steve calls them, and to enjoy my tapes as what they are: unique works of art!

Thanks to Dan, Paul, Mike and Eileen for their efforts and don't forget to have fun.


Xavier Cortes

Offline john

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Re: Price increase
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2009, 03:20:35 AM »
.

The only commitments made by the TP to first series suscribers were two: that they would continue to release tapes (somehow easing the investment in hardware) and that charter suscribers could rollover their suscriptions to keep their #. They are keeping their promises and in top of that they have been announcing very good titles AND have offered a sbstantial discount on series two to us that have been with them since the start.


[/quote]

 I believe that its no longer the case that we keep our numbers, if I read Docs recent post correctly.
John Taylor

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Offline xcortes

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Re: Price increase
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2009, 09:19:19 AM »
John,

can you direct me to the post you're refering to? I haven't seen that.
Xavier Cortes

Offline docb

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Re: Price increase
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2009, 11:14:55 AM »
OK, we are back from CES, and after my first real night's sleep since last Tuesday I have a little more time and active gray matter with which to address the recent minor eruption of discussion about the new series, price increase, special offers, the purpose of the forum and our responsibility to the high end audio community.

Firstly, regarding serial numbers and charter memberships:

Yes, the idea with a charter Subscription is that you were assigned a serial number between 20 and 100* that we guaranteed all tapes of Series One would bear when you purchased that subscription from us. A Charter subscriber is given the right of first refusal with regards to carrying that serial number over if they decide to take a full subscription for Series Two. Right of first refusal means that there is a time limit to how long a Charter subscriber has to exercise the option to acquire a Series Two subscription - obviously we can't hold that number indefinitely as we have to sell subscriptions to survive. So we have set the date of Feb 28, 2009 through which a Series One Charter subscriber can acquire a full subscription to Series Two and lock in the same serial number as for Series One. And we are offering a special rate for Series Two subscriptions through Feb 28 as well, as a thank you to those who supported us with Series One subscriptions.

Xavier has pretty much hit the nail on the head about our (Paul, Michael and I) intentions with the Project and my intention in what the forum would be used for.

This is not making CDs. It's not pressing LPs. It's not offering high res files for download. It's not even high speed duplicating of 7" 1/4 track tapes. This is making a master dupe - something that up until now you could not do legally without spending many thousands of dollars. And even then it's not likely a label would grant you a license for a single duplicate of one of their masters. I thought this idea was cool because in meeting Paul and Michael so many years ago I found a way to access that experience of hearing master tapes by hanging with them at the studio when they had one there to master. It kind of ruined me for anything else and we thought it would be cool if we could create the experience for others.

Hopefully folks get that this is what we are offering, not just a pre-recorded tape, but a master dupe done with as much exacting care and taking as much time as necessary to do it right. And done by guys who actually need to be doing something else - making money to pay the light bill. We don't take a paycheck from the Project. Michael just stayed home from CES and spent 70 hours last week working through the weekend on another packing run. He would have been better off in terms of his income if he had spent the time working with a client, a job for which he gets to keep some of the money the customer pays. That's because we are committed to this thing, and we are going to make it keep happening without complaining even though we might feel like we are working harder than ever and just catching flack. Hopefully our subscribers will understand this, and maybe when the urge comes to post for the third time in three days that they are still waiting for an album, they can help us keep up our attitude by holding off from complaining, too. It would be a shame if we decided we had to end the Project because we felt that folks didn't see it as a labor of love and understand that it takes time to do it right with the same level of care and exactitude for each subscriber.

OK, enough flowery sentimentality. The forum is for posts about the albums, tape recorders, and anything related to the experience of listening to the open reel format. It's not really a customer service link. You guys have our phone number, you have our e-mails. If you want to know what's up with your subscription, just shoot us an e-mail or call us. We may say it's going to be a while, that's just how custom making something this labor intensive works. But as always we will give you all the info we have. I initiated and have agreed to post production info when it is available - in fact I just told you that Michael is shipping a bunch of orders today. I will post whenever I have info about completion of another run and subsequent shipping.

Our business may or may not be run by someone else's notion of how it should be run. But then again, this is the only business like this on the planet. If folks went out and bought houses they couldn't afford and the auto manufacturers made more cars than the bubble could float and the economy is hurting because the guys on Wall Street are greedy bastards with a short term view, that has little bearing upon our need to increase our price when our costs increase. We are not Wal Mart, there are no loss leaders, and we have to cover our costs in order to fulfill the request of our subscribers that we continue it long enough to build a catalog that justifies their investment in the format.

OK, preachy mode off. We truly appreciate the support of those who came to us and bought a subscription from us. And obviously, we do read and listen to what folks have to say about the Project and always consider these opinions when we make our choices about how the Project operates. 

* Shawn just asked what we did with 1 thru 19, and I realized everyone will want to know. Paul's set is #1, mine is #2 and Romo's is #3 (we prioritized by age). Numbers 4-19 are being kept in reserve for our families' inheritance.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2009, 01:49:49 PM by docb »
Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President for Life, Bottlehead Corp.
Managing Director - retired, The Tape Project