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Author Topic: Here's what I know of Ampex  (Read 11311 times)

Offline reel zealot

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Here's what I know of Ampex
« on: January 26, 2009, 08:59:29 PM »
Here?s a companion on Ampex Reel tapes?.

Ampex produced consumer reel tapes since at least the early 60s.  Early labels offered by Ampex were London (Decca England?s US name), DGG, Philips, A&M, and Vanguard.  Not aware of any 2-track tapes ever offered by Ampex. (Is anyone?) As with others, 3 3/4ips was introduced as way to reduce costs (in the late 60s?) and was believed to be acceptable to the consumer for popular tapes with a reduction in price of a dollar.  Unlike Epic and others, Ampex released classical tapes at 7 1/2ips with few exceptions.  Early London tapes with the blue label are sought out by many.

After Capitol stopped manufacturing it?s own reel tapes in the early 70s, for a couple of years, Ampex produced Capitol and Angel tapes. Interestingly, I believe all were released at 7 1/2ips, whether classical or popular. This is when the entire Beatles collection was released at 7 1/2ips. Whereas in the middle of the Beatles? releases, Capitol released popular tapes at 7 1/2ips and then switched all popular at 3 3/4ips, rereleasing some Beatles tapes in 3 ? twin-paks. Seemingly, few copies of the Beatles album were produced as they are very rare (or hoarded).  All the Beatles albums on Ampex I have heard have been of excellent quality as well. Ampex stopped offering Capitol/Angel by late 1972. Vanguard in 72 (or 73). However, you will find most Angel titles frequently.  One exception is a series of double reel sets on different composers in a ?Portrait of the Composer? series.

At it?s peak in the late 60s/early 70s, Ampex had a huge catalog. However, one distributor said it was a crap shot if they would receive what they ordered or be out of print without notice. Ampex of this era was known for the complete notes and librettos provided. In late 1972, Ampex was the first to start releasing tapes with Dolby B. In late 1973, they switched to a high quality high density high output tape stock.  Including several priced Mercury releases. Only 4 tapes Mercury tapes were ever offered with Dolby. Also in 1973, both Mercury and DGG ended their contracts with Ampex. Unfortunately, as has been discussed with B-C tapes, some tapes experience a squeal problem which seems to vary with what recorder is used to play them back. Unfortunately, changes occurred quickly in the early 70s in an effort to keep cost down, coupled with management that couldn?t decide whether to stay in the business or not.

During this period, they first tried inserting cards and offered the album booklets for operas and stopped offering notes otherwise.  Additionally, there was a time when they sold albums without album art, the back cover Xeroxed as the front cover, and a dot matrix printed reel label. Interestingly, the ones I have are of excellent quality. But can have low resale value due to the graphic quality. In 1974, their contract with London changed and all tapes (including cassettes) where manufactured by Ampex but with the Ampex name removed.  Tapes you find with the back cover cut and centered in the middle are of this era. New releases are properly centered, but are blank at the bottom where you would find the Ampex name. Also in 1974, Philips ended their contract with Ampex. Luckily, as been discussed by others, a significant number of both Mercury and Philips recordings were released later on B-C. Ampex ceased commercial reel tape production in 1975. I find tapes duplicated in 1974 and 1975 are some of the best mass produced tapes you will find. Notable releases are the complete Beethoven Symphonies with Solti, Liszt Tone Poems with Solti, Gershwin Rhapsody in Blue with Maazel.  All on London.  The Bitter End Years on Roxy (I believe only available directly from Ampex. On Stage with Benny Goodman on London. Kraftwerk?s Autobahn on Vertigo.

Interested in your observations of the best from the Ampex era.
Glenn Yoritomo

Offline astrotoy

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Re: Here's what I know of Ampex
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2009, 11:00:40 AM »
Thanks for the great information on Ampex. I have a large number of the classical London tapes - several hundred - both with the blue label and the later black label.  Although the blue label correspond to the great early era of Decca SXL2000 and SXL6000 wide band records, I have generally not found them to be of high quality. What I have found and am seeking out are the late dolby B encoded Londons, which I agree with you are the finest sounding of the London tapes - much of the time close to comparable to the B-C tapes. Some of the dolby B's include the Prokofiev Romeo and Juliet by Maazel, the Mehta Holst Planets, the Solti Mahler Sym8 and some of the great Pavarotti Puccini Operas - Boheme, Butterfly - both with Freni. I am using an Advent 100 to decode the dolby B. If you have an absolute polarity switch on your preamp, you will find that the Londons are almost all (never found one not) inverted. Same with the classical Decca/London vinyl. It makes a noticable difference in my system which has horn speakers.  I just took a quick count, looks like I have about 50 titles of the dolby B London classicals. There are also about 20 or more Philips and DGG titles and a few which have the Ampex label which look like Ampex dolby B. I know the Bernstein Carmen - DGG dolby B is excellent. The great thing about these tapes is that they are not expensive - typically around $5-10 for a single tape and less than $20 for a multiple tape issue. There are several single tapes which hold the equivalent of 2 records (about 45 min on each side.) These are usually priced like a single tape. Compared to the current outrageous prices of Barclay-Crockers, these are bargains.   Larry 
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Offline ironbut

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Re: Here's what I know of Ampex
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2009, 02:00:11 PM »
I haven't checked the prices on BC's lateley but now I'm almost afraid to look. I still have around 100 to go for a complete set and I know that I'll have to pay dearly for some of the low numbered releases if I choose to be a "completest" regarding these.
I agree with you both that the late London releases can be excellent. I have the Mahler #8 Solti that I bought new at a used record store and several others that were unplayed when I bought them. I've found that a couple of the "Phase 4" releases were great sounding as well. I find it interesting that some of the London/Solti releases sound so good since I would guess that they produced a huge number of these considering how well the vinyl issues of these sold. The condition of these on the used market varies widely.
One tape that I love (and love the original vinyl I have too) is the Brahms Violin Concerto with Haitink and Szeryng on Phillips. It really sounds fantastic but this particular tape has some sort of sticky shed type problem (I don't believe it to be true binder hydrolysis SSS but it acts exactly like it) which reared it ugly head after 50 or so playings. I'm working under the assumption that I didn't allow the head cleaner to completely dry before I threaded this prized tape and played it. I'm thinking that enough of the head cleaner was still pooled up toward the bottoms of the guides so the tape picked it up as it made it's rounds. Anyway, user error would be my guess (this was during the early days of using this head cleaner which doesn't evaporate as quickly as some others and I've since been more patient and cleaned any excess off with a dry swab before playing). I'll give playing it a try today since it's been in a sealed bag with silica gel for over a year! (kinda forgot about it I guess)
One thing that's for sure about these latter Ampex releases, man, they uses the nicest plastic 7" low torque reels I'd ever seen. Maybe a little thicker which could cause some flanging but very nice. If any of you guys end up with garbage tapes on these reels, PM me, I'll take all you have and distribute them to other members for the cost of shipping. Don't throw them away!
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Offline xcortes

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Re: Here's what I know of Ampex
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2009, 03:58:04 PM »
My experience with BC so far is very limited: 1 1/2 sides. My deck arrived this week from Doc and today I connected and set up the Nakamichi Dolby decoder and I'm through my first BC. If all BC's sound like this one I'll pay not to listen to them. Maybe it is the Nakamichi unit but it sounds terrible: bright and colored. This morning, on the other hand, I played two Ampex tapes (pre dolby). One is a London and the other a DG. The London is as good as it gets. The BC is also very colored but still much better sounding than the Schubert BC I'm listening to right now.

Of course I'll test the others (I have about ten) but I'm keeping my expectations low. Anyway, my rack don't have space for a dolby decoder!

Tonight I start with the Quintons. They'd better be good!

Edit: I'm still listening to the BCs and now ABing with and without the Dolby processor. Wow! the sound without is light years ahead. This Nak unit is a piece of crap. I still have the old Tandberg deck to rescue the Dolby unit ala Stellavox. In the meantime I'll try the BCs ala ironbut, i.e. "naked".
« Last Edit: February 08, 2009, 05:14:02 PM by xcortes »
Xavier Cortes

Offline ironbut

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Re: Here's what I know of Ampex
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2009, 05:53:58 PM »
Yeah, I was afraid that the NR200 would sound like you've described. It's the way those IC's sound I'm guessing. The Integrex unit I have is the same way, not veiled like some of the discreet units I've got but edgy and hard sounding (very 70's). Many (certainly not all) of the BC's have the potential to be great sounding tapes. I've thought of building a eq circuit just to playback Dolby tapes but the modifications on the Dolby Labs 330 show real promise. I've had enough spare time lately to concentrate on it and I've got a couple of more things I want to try in the next month. Of course, I'm the only one that's heard it so far but I'll get it buttoned up for some opinions at Larry Toy's get together next month. Then I'll see if the mods are worth the trouble or if they're all in my head.
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Offline xcortes

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Re: Here's what I know of Ampex
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2009, 06:01:36 PM »
you're documenting the mods, aren't you?
Xavier Cortes

Offline reel zealot

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Re: Here's what I know of Ampex
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2009, 09:34:43 PM »
Some of my favorite 'late' Dolby London/Ampex tapes are:
- Beethoven: Complete Symphonies (Solti)
- Shostakovich:Symphonies 1 and 9 (Weller)
- Berlioz: Romeo Et Juliette (Maazel)
- Tchaikovsky: Eugene Onegin (Solti)
- Berlioz: Symphonie Fanstastique (Solti)
- Tchailkovsky: Tone Poems (Dorati)
- Ravel: Daphnis Et Chloe
- Prokofiev: Romeo & Juliet (Maazel)
And the last four tapes from Ampex:
- Gershwin: Rhapsody in Blue
- Rimsky-Korsakov: Scheherazade
- Russian Overtures
- Dallapiccola: Il Prigioniero
Currently, my London/Ampex Dolby collection is 120.
Favorite DGG/Ampex tape is Holst: Planets (Steinberg) and Bernstein: West Side Story (Ozawa). Although, the B-C DGG tapes I have are much better. On Philips, the eight Mozart Early Symphonies (), the Mozart Wind Concerto tapes (Marriner), Orff: Der Mond (Kegel), and Schoenberg: Moses and Aron (Gielen).

Glenn Yoritomo

Offline ironbut

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Re: Here's what I know of Ampex
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2009, 12:23:23 AM »
you're documenting the mods, aren't you?

I've gone back and forth so many times now, I couldn't forget them if I wanted to! Luckily, I've got a couple of units so I can always find my way back all the way to stock if I wanted to. I kinda hate to go into any details till I'm sure I'm on the right track.
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Offline astrotoy

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Re: Here's what I know of Ampex
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2009, 11:40:48 AM »
Thanks again to reel zealot (we normally use our real (not "reel" :-) ) names in the TP forum) for his recommendations on specific dolby B tapes. I have some of them and I will be playing them in the next few days.  I am looking forward to hearing Steve's dolby B convertor next month. For me, I cannot listen to the dolby B tapes including the B-C tapes, without a dolby B convertor. I don't have tone controls on my preamp and the hiss is way too obtrusive. In my dotage I have been fortunate to be blessed with little or no loss in high frequency sensitivity. Maybe as I get to the decrepit stage I may develop my own internal dolby B system.  I was talking to Paul S. a few months ago and mentioned that i thought the sound quality of the London Ampex tapes improved from earlier to later, particularly the dolby B tapes which have the almost black tape stock. He told me that in the early days, the way the tape duplication system worked was pretty crude, particularly how the blank tape stock was fed to the reproducing machine - high speed with guides that did not keep the tape perfectly alligned. Mechanically, things improved over time. Perhaps reel zealot has some information on that. The oldest Londons I have are acetate tapes (you can see that they look translucent when a reel is viewed from the side. The tape stock changed to mylar based, but still medium brown in color and then finally to an almost black mylar at the end of the dolby B production. Do I have that correct or are there other variations that I have not picked up.  Thanks, Larry
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Offline reel zealot

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Re: Here's what I know of Ampex
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2009, 08:08:58 PM »
Yes, I have seen the same thing.  However, they used a couple of different formulations in the later years of very quality.  Unfortunately, some were so highly polished or not very lubricated and squel on some recorders in certain situations.  (Unfortunately, some B-C tapes suffer from the same problem. I can't recall any tapes with the sticky tape problem but suspect there were.

Still when I go back these days and play early Ampex tapes they sound much better and less noisy than I remembered so I suspect that the improvements in tape decks helped as well.

Hope this helps
Glenn
Glenn Yoritomo