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Author Topic: Otari Seduction Combo/Tubes  (Read 4354 times)

Offline jcmusic

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Otari Seduction Combo/Tubes
« on: March 04, 2009, 09:42:13 PM »
Ok my seduction is broken in and now it is time to find the best sounding tubes for this application. I need some where to start, what tubes have you guys found to your liken?

Jay
Redpoint Model D TT/Soundsmith Sotto Voce Cartridge Otari MX 5050 BII/BH Tube Repro deHavilland Model 222
 Ah Njoe Tjoeb 4000, Rogue Magnum 99, Korneff 45 SET Amp, Klipsch K-Horns Bass Bins/2" Tractrix Horns 2" BMS Drivers, Vintage Tubes.

Offline ironbut

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Re: Otari Seduction Combo/Tubes
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2009, 10:20:39 PM »
When it comes to phono stages or any small signal application you need some nice quiet tubes. I like the 7308 in general. Sure, they can be really expensive now days but most used 7308 will still outlive most new 6922 or 6dj8 (I always find creative ways to be cheep). That said, my favorites are Amperex. I prefer the white label PQ Holland manufacture but the difference between those and the ones made in New York are super subtle. That means that unless you get super picky, the JAN/Hewlett Packard 7308 sound about the same. There are quite a few variations on this theme and fans of just about all of them. I know Doc likes the orange globe 7308 and the quietest ones are the green label JAN 7308. One of the most important things with the Seduction or any other phono stage is that you get them selected as phono grade. This is harder than it used to be and you usually end up paying a premium for true grading. If you have a regular guy that you buy tubes from and trust, it's best to stick with them. I find that the better tubes like the ones I already mentioned are already pretty quiet across the board.
I've been buying 6dj8 types for quite a while now and there are many flavors out there. I'm a big Amperex fan but some others that were pretty good were Tungsram 6922, Siemans and Halske, and Telefunken. To be honest, they're all overpriced but like I said, some are 10,000 hour tubes. Some of the current production tubes aren't that shabby either. The Russian NOS 6n23eb (I think) isn't too bad and you can get them pretty cheap.
If you don't know the family of Phillips tubes (which ones are different and which just have different labels) you should learn about them here;
http://www.tube-classics.de/TC/Tubes/AudioTubes.htm
steve koto
 Sony scd 777es(R. Kern mods)> Vpi Aires>Dynavector XX-2mkll>Bent mu>CAT ultimate>CJ premeir 140>Magnepan 1.6qr(Jensen xover)Headphone Eddie Current Zana Deux>AT ad2000,HD800 ,Metric Halo ULN-2 (battery powered),
 HE Audio Jades

mep

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Re: Otari Seduction Combo/Tubes
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2009, 10:56:17 AM »
If you need phono grade tubes (i.e., super low noise and non-microphonic), be very leery of 6922/7308 super tubes on Ebay.  I own all kinds of exotic 6922/7308 type tubes, and the majority are way too noisy to use in low noise applications.  They might last 10K hours, but they won't last 5 minutes in my rig if they start howling when I hit the mute button.  I have some NOS Mullard 6922s that are so noisy I can't even use them in my line stage.  I finally got tired of wasting money on premium NOS noisy tubes and bought current production top graded tubes from Upscale. 

Offline jcmusic

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Re: Otari Seduction Combo/Tubes
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2009, 11:25:20 AM »
If you need phono grade tubes (i.e., super low noise and non-microphonic), be very leery of 6922/7308 super tubes on Ebay.  I own all kinds of exotic 6922/7308 type tubes, and the majority are way too noisy to use in low noise applications.  They might last 10K hours, but they won't last 5 minutes in my rig if they start howling when I hit the mute button.  I have some NOS Mullard 6922s that are so noisy I can't even use them in my line stage.  I finally got tired of wasting money on premium NOS noisy tubes and bought current production top graded tubes from Upscale. 
And which ones would those be?

Jay
Redpoint Model D TT/Soundsmith Sotto Voce Cartridge Otari MX 5050 BII/BH Tube Repro deHavilland Model 222
 Ah Njoe Tjoeb 4000, Rogue Magnum 99, Korneff 45 SET Amp, Klipsch K-Horns Bass Bins/2" Tractrix Horns 2" BMS Drivers, Vintage Tubes.

mep

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Re: Otari Seduction Combo/Tubes
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2009, 11:31:15 AM »
That would be the Russian tubes that Kevin puts through the ringer for grading.

Offline ironbut

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Re: Otari Seduction Combo/Tubes
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2009, 02:06:46 PM »
I feel your pain Mark. Buying tubes on eBay is a roll of the dice at best. I've found a couple of guys there that actually test their tubes like they say in their ads but I've also bought tubes that the sellers state that they've thoroughly tested them and when I tried them, in the trash they went. As a result, I almost never buy tubes from auction sites and if I do, I bid super low so I don't mind tossing a few. Many of the 7308's that I have came from Upscale and I've been a customer of Kevin's for decades. He's one of my first choices if he has the tubes I want. Tube World is pretty good too although Branden lets a few bad tubes through from time to time. Both those guys are great about returning problem tubes and that makes all the difference.
You do pay a price for this service but the piece of mind is worth it. Luckily I did most of my experimenting with 6DJ8 types when these tubes were still pretty cheap. I can remember when Kevin had 8 packs of Amperex 7308's for $200 and I passed on them because that just seemed crazy! I still have back ups that I bought back then and I have a feeling that the barrel is getting pretty empty about now. Most of the 7308's that I buy now have been from sources in Europe.
steve koto
 Sony scd 777es(R. Kern mods)> Vpi Aires>Dynavector XX-2mkll>Bent mu>CAT ultimate>CJ premeir 140>Magnepan 1.6qr(Jensen xover)Headphone Eddie Current Zana Deux>AT ad2000,HD800 ,Metric Halo ULN-2 (battery powered),
 HE Audio Jades

mep

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Re: Otari Seduction Combo/Tubes
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2009, 02:26:47 PM »
Steve-Most people on Ebay can't grade tubes for noise (if they can grade them at all) which is what makes buying expensive tubes there a very risky endeavour.  Just because it says Siemens, Amperex, Mullard, Telefunken, Valvo, etc.,  and it tests like new for mutual conductance (or they claim they are NOS) doesn't mean it will be any less noisy than the cheapest Russian/Chinese tubes. RAM Tube Labs does a great job and so does Upscale with testing and grading their tubes for noise.  You pay more, but you can depend on them when you get them.

Offline jcmusic

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Re: Otari Seduction Combo/Tubes
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2009, 03:19:14 PM »
Well guys as for where I get my tubes, I try Andy at Vintage Tube Services first. I have been getting tubes from him for years, he stands behind all of his tubes and I think he test better than anyone else out there. Now he is a little slow, but he takes his time during the testing. I have also had luck with Brent Jesse the only time I got tubes from him, and that was because Andy didn't have what I was looking for. I do not ever buy tubes from Ebay.

Jay
Redpoint Model D TT/Soundsmith Sotto Voce Cartridge Otari MX 5050 BII/BH Tube Repro deHavilland Model 222
 Ah Njoe Tjoeb 4000, Rogue Magnum 99, Korneff 45 SET Amp, Klipsch K-Horns Bass Bins/2" Tractrix Horns 2" BMS Drivers, Vintage Tubes.