Pondering a Seduction & Otari Mods

[Grant99]

Hi everyone, I've been lurking around here a while but finally decided to post.  I'm pretty much a newbie to R2R, TP subscriber (#77) but not new to audio & LPs.

So I find myself asking: if running a Seduction off my Otari improves the sound that much..its certainly worth it...but...I still need to be able to record as well!  The whole idea of the Otari is that you can make good recordings in 2-track...but still play 2 track & 4 track pre-recorded tapes.  This is what I want/need.  And I don't  have the space for another "playback only" deck...that would defeat the purpose of getting the Otari on the first place.

So I'm wondering out loud if the Bottlehead staffers (or anyone for that matter?) can do a mod where you can easily switch between direct output from the heads and the Otari's own internal amp?

Also, do the tape path mods specifically improve the sound or are they meant to "refurbish" well-worn Otari's.  My own MX-5050 is relatively new (less than 2 yrs) and does not have a lot of hours on it.  Would  I still get sonic improvements on it?

Any input is certainly appreciated...

[ecir40]

Hey Grant, converting to an external tapehead amp like the seduction only affects the reproduce section of the factory amp and does not disable the use of the record amp. Other words you will still be able to record with this mod done.

[docb]

Brad is of course correct about the Seduction only being for playback. In fact we don't touch the record circuitry at all since we have been modding machines with playback of prerecorded tapes in mind. I suppose one could put in some sort of switch to switch the heads from internal to external playback, but we don't do that. The external playback electronics sound a lot better than the stock electronics no matter how new they are, and installing a switch in a low level signal path like head cables is begging for trouble with noise.

The tape path mods do make even a new machine sound better. The improvement is a better sense of resolution and better leading edge transients, making the music sound more palpable and lively.

[xcortes]

If you order a Seduction this weekend (the kit) you get the C4S upgrade for free

[Grant99]

Thanks; I'm not sure what you mean by the "CS4" mod kit. Is that the Otari tape path mod?

I didn't realize that the input-end of the Otari electronics isn't altered by installing the Seduction.  Is it possible I wonder to just get really good RCA jacks installed at the direct-output of the deck?

[ecir40]

See CS4 here

http://www.bottlehead.com/et/adobespc/Seduction/seduction.htm

Instead of the seduction I would recommend this is you have the funds.

http://www.bottlehead.com/et/adobespc/eros/eros.htm

These rca's would make for a nice install. They don't look like a direct replacment but shouldn't be hard to put these in place of the xlr's and would probably look nice :).

http://www.neutrik.com/us/en/audio/204_1386454248/Phono_(RCA)_Sockets_productlist.aspx

[Grant99]

Is the CS4 upgrade only available in kit or can you get it included say in an assembled Seduction tape head amp?

Thinking about the direct-head wiring...if the head output is direct wired then the deck would only function as a 2-head machine like a 2 head cassette deck?  i.e. you wouldn't be able to monitor with the VU meters flipping back and forth between source and tape...only source?

Thanks

[steveidosound]

You could certainly monitor the sound if the  external tape head preamp were connected to a tape monitor type line level input on your control unit. But the play head can only be connected to one device at a time, so if it is disconnected from the internal playback electronics in favor of the outboard tape preamp the internal VU meters will not indicate with the Otari switched to tape. They would still show record levels on source.

[ecir40]

Is the CS4 upgrade only available in kit or can you get it included say in an assembled Seduction tape head amp?

Thinking about the direct-head wiring...if the head output is direct wired then the deck would only function as a 2-head machine like a 2 head cassette deck?  i.e. you wouldn't be able to monitor with the VU meters flipping back and forth between source and tape...only source?

Thanks

Here's a seduction with the CS4 in Doc's Stash on sale.
http://www.bottlehead.com/loosep/docsstash/docsstash.html

What kind of line stage do you use? I hooked a seducton to my Hagerman Clarinet which only has 15dB of gain and didn't have enough output as I would have liked. Jay hooked the Seduction to his Rogue 99 that has 23dB of gain and had allot of headroom. My point is if you will be using a line stage with low gain the Seduction may not suite you and you should consider the Eros which would probably be an all around better performer with more gain.

If you have the headstack with the 2 and 4 track heads both will work with the direct head wiring. The heads are mounted to a pcb with the 2 & 4 track switch, this pcb plugs into a juntion block plug. The wiring for the direct head out is done behind the junction block so in essence it is wired after the 2 & 4 track switch. You can see some pics here.
http://www.awardaudio.com/R2Rpictures/Otari-Headstack/index.htm
and the wiring here
http://www.awardaudio.com/Otariheadwire1.html

You could certainly monitor the sound if the  external tape head preamp were connected to a tape monitor type line level input on your control unit. But the play head can only be connected to one device at a time, so if it is disconnected from the internal playback electronics in favor of the outboard tape preamp the internal VU meters will not indicate with the Otari switched to tape. They would still show record levels on source.

See this thread for another way of looking at using the VU meters during playback.
http://www.tapeproject.com/smf/index.php/topic,792.0.html
Jay hooked his up like this with his Rouge 99 and reported no problems in doing so.

[ironbut]

Brad is right on the money regarding the gain issue with the Seduction. Also, I have a Seduction I built and modified and a Repro Amp. And while the Seduction is and insanely good bargain for tape or vinyl, the Repro is simply about as good sounding as it gets, regardless of price. The Eros is pretty much the Repro without the expensive parts (teflon, BlackGates etc.), the balanced output and the expensive casework. I think this makes it a killer bargain! And while the gain isn't an issue with most folks, buying the Eros gives you some extra flexibility.
If you're like me and aways need to know just how high the bar is, save yourself some time and money and get a modified Eros and add those boutique components when you feel like it.