Tape Project Forum
Tape Machines => Reel to Reel Tape Machines => Topic started by: Ki Choi on October 14, 2009, 03:20:52 PM
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See the last R2R machine...
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/Sony-Studio-Pano.html
It was lifted from the Yahoo forum.
Enjoy,
Ki
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Very cool Ki!
I just wanta know why the ATR doesn't have a name???
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Yea Ki that is pretty cool!!!
Jay
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I thought it was interesting to see the natual habitat for the pro reel to reel machines. The clutter in the room and the Herman-Miller Aeron chairs (the same one I use in my room) spreadout may contribute to good sound - I guess.
There is an ATR machine next to the two Studer A800 multi-track machines. The A820 shown at the end seems to be a 1/2" machine judging from the height of the tape rollers with two other four track A820s in the back ground. I'll have to check if Studer made four track version of the A820. A real Studer expert might know.
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Aeron! Me need! Back is killing me from the crappy chairs in the place. Was surprised to find one as the desk chair at one of the hotel rooms we stayed in during the Headfi meet last summer. Almost fell asleep in it about 5 seconds after my butt hit the seat. They are amazingly comfortable.
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Aeron! Me need! Back is killing me from the crappy chairs in the place. Was surprised to find one as the desk chair at one of the hotel rooms we stayed in during the Headfi meet last summer. Almost fell asleep in it about 5 seconds after my butt hit the seat. They are amazingly comfortable.
Me too! For all the hours I spend at my desk/workbench/dining room table/,.. well you get the idea.
I swear, it's one of those "quality of life" issues that even a state run nursing home would attend to but I gotta have this toy or that one first!
At least I think I've gotten all the wire strands out of the seat so they don't worm their way through my jeans and into my skin!
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2 large monitors right in front in the listening area between the speakers... nice one!
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Aeron! Me need! Back is killing me from the crappy chairs in the place. Was surprised to find one as the desk chair at one of the hotel rooms we stayed in during the Headfi meet last summer. Almost fell asleep in it about 5 seconds after my butt hit the seat. They are amazingly comfortable.
Me too! For all the hours I spend at my desk/workbench/dining room table/,.. well you get the idea.
I swear, it's one of those "quality of life" issues that even a state run nursing home would attend to but I gotta have this toy or that one first!
At least I think I've gotten all the wire strands out of the seat so they don't worm their way through my jeans and into my skin!
So, THAT is where the forum nickname comes from! :)
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Doc B/Steve:
I believe in using the office chair for music purpose. As a fickle audio fan, I try many speaker types and the nice music chairs are limited (or none) in height adjustments. Areon chairs are comforatble and have the flexibility to let me dial in my ear height to the vertical sweet spot.
Bruce B:
I've got to make my pilgrimage to your studio! Did you click on the image and pan around with the mouse? If you haven't, try to move in and out to see more gear in the background. Judging from the faint outlines of their monitor speakers, they are the old B&W 801 Series IIIs. And best of all, look up at the ceiling also. It has a strange sound treament - bordering on the "love hotel" decorations in Japan (as if I have ever been in one...;-) if they only add a big mirror.
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Does look like it has a great vibe! I wouldn't use it as a mastering studio until I made some changes. You don't usually see 16-24 track machines in a mastering room
Anytime Ki.. my door is always open! Make sure you bring some good tunes!
Regards,
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Well, that's just about enough Studer drooling around here!
For a restoration/archiving/transfer studio and reel to reel showplace, you can't do a whole lot better than Steve Puntolillio's A2DX Lab.
Anyone who hangs out on the Ampex list will be familiar with him and his unwavering support of the breed. This link is one of those that not a whole lotta folks look at in the Reel to Reel Links sticky above the General forum but there's a ton of great Ampex info here. Many of the restoration crowd consider him to be the authority when it comes to molded tape restoration (maybe a good one for "Worlds Dirtiest Jobs").
http://www.sonicraft.com/A2DX/a2dx_about.html
BTW; Be sure and check out the tech notes.
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Steve's shop is literally a twenty-minute drive from my home; I've thought about asking if a visit would be possible. Of particular interest is his tape path mods applied to the 440c machines.....might be worth investigating as a mod for my 440B deck.
Check out the MR-70.........Whoa!
Tj
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I've been safe and fortunate to know little about the Ampex machines to trigger my obsession for them...until now.
I can blame Steve for the potential down fall - if I have to explain it to my wife (or have to locate a new living place after getting kicked out of the house).
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Well,we're not quite the UK's answer to Sonicraft yet let alone Sony but we're making a start...
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/mapleheds/300-01.jpg)
LOL
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Hi Brian C:
How many loads of washing can you do in an hour with that thing? ...;-)
I have an understanding wife (until now) but ....
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I am not sure, but I bet it has a GOOD spin cycle. :-)
Still that reminds me, @ 15 IPS you still have the best sound
for that machines era.
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Ah, the old tub is definitely not for domestic use Ki Choi ;o)
With direct feed from a C12.....WOW!
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Hi folks,
Bruce B. -
The room shown in the NYT article is not a mastering room. It is a transfer facility for the archive department.
Ki Choi -
The ATR in the picture is not normally used in this room, just happened to be parked there that day.
Matt Cavaluzzo, the transfer engineer, like his Studers.
Normal compliment of machines in the room (the Studers have names) is:
Studer A820 "Trudi"1/4" full track mono, 1/2 track stereo or 1/4 track stereo
Studer A820 "Ursula" 1/2" 2 track stereo (no 4 track A820's made to my knowledge)
Studer A807 "the Three Track" 1/2" 3 track
Studer A807 "The Four Track" 1/2" 4 track
Studer A827 "Louise" 24 channel set up for 1" 8 track
Studer A827 "Gwen" 24 channel 2" 24 track, 16 track or 8 track
Sony PCM-R500 DAT
Sony CDP-D500 CD
When needed we can roll in..
Sony PCM 3348 HR 48 channel digital
Sony PCM 1630 / DMR 4000 2 channel digital
Sony K1183 2 channel digital
Mitsubishi X850 32 channel digital
Mitsubishi X86-HS 2 channel digital
Mitsubishi X80 2 channel digital
besides tape machines you can see in the photo
Rockport Technologies turntable w/ Cello preamp for vinyl & acetate discs
BC 16-C turntable for 78's and metal parts.
2 channel A-D conversion - dCS 904
Multi channel A-D conversion - emmLabs ADC8-MkIV
D-A conversion dCS 954
We have 4 mastering rooms and another transfer room in addition to this room.
Dominick Costanzo
Battery Studios / Sony Music Entertainment
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Thanks for the clarification Dominick, and welcome to the forum.
If you get a moment, I'd love to get a little technical info about your transfer facility.
Do you guys restore your tapes and older media like metal/lacquers in house? If so, how do the different labels differ in condition in general? I guess I'm wondering how carefully these items were stored and which particular labels are more at immediate risk of being lost?
Also, since Columbia is in Sony's stables, there seems to be some debate over the equalization of their 78's. I'm hoping you could share the eq curve your facility uses?
Thanks again for sharing!
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Normal compliment of machines in the room (the Studers have names) is:
I just realized that the Studers at the studio don't have names - but the ATRs do - Moe, Larry, Curly, Shemp and the Big Inch. My recently sold RS1500 was Big Red. Guess I need to come up with a name for the Nagra T, too.
Speaking of Romo's studio, check out the cover of December MIX magazine.
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Thanks for heads up on that Doc.
There's a great video regarding the cover story starring,... Romo! Real cool stuff. ( Do I see a guest spot in Michael's future in " Desperate Housewives"? )
Check it out;
http://mixonline.com/
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Thanks for the clarification Dominick, and welcome to the forum.
If you get a moment, I'd love to get a little technical info about your transfer facility.
Do you guys restore your tapes and older media like metal/lacquers in house? If so, how do the different labels differ in condition in general? I guess I'm wondering how carefully these items were stored and which particular labels are more at immediate risk of being lost?
Also, since Columbia is in Sony's stables, there seems to be some debate over the equalization of their 78's. I'm hoping you could share the eq curve your facility uses?
Thanks again for sharing!
Restore the original media? Not sure what you mean by that.
Preservation more than restoration.
We will bake tape that needs to be (a temporary restoration at best)
We clean discs only when absolutely necessary. No disc cleaning machine.
Most of of the Columbia & RCA Victor stuff has been well kept.
Even under optimum storage conditions some stuff is breaking down
Priority for digitizing is determined by media most at risk and commercial value of the program.
Matt Cavaluzzo is our transfer engineer. I'm a tech.
I'll ask him about the Columbia 78 eq but IIRC, disc transfers are done with only turnover eq, no HF roll off.
HF roll off is applied during the mastering.
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Thanks Dominick,
It's great to hear that RCA and Columbia treated their holding with the respect they deserve.
Regarding the Columbia eq standard, here's a link to a lecture I attended where this was discussed (unfortunately the graphs aren't included but I believe I have hard copies somewhere).
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+Columbia+Lp+equalization+curve.-a0203127625
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Hi Dominick:
Welcome again and do appreciate your first hand account of your equipments and what's going on in the studio. We need more of professionals in this group sharing their insights.
I am a big Studer fan but also so enjoy the Sony APR 5003s. I see no Sony APRs listed in Sony studio... What's up with that?
Lastly I am happy to see that life of analog recorders are still sustained in the pro world.
Yes, Doc. We should name our beloved recorders. I will report the results when I will have plenty of time on airplaines this weekend.
Ki
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Ki,
We had one lone APR-5003 in our audio post department back at 54th St.
By the time I started at Sony (2002) it wasn't being used very much.
We sold it at the 2007 auction.
We did have a lot of Sony digital recorders.
4 PCM-3348HR, 2 K-1183 (20 bit version of the PCM 3402) over 20 PCM-1630/DMR-4000 systems, about a dozen PCM-7030, another dozen PCM-2800 and countless Sony CDP-2700.
Analog was Studer & Ampex. In 2002 we had;
5 A827, 5 A800 MkIII, a dozen or so A820, 4 A820/Cello 4 track, 2 A807 4 track, 1 A80RC, 1 A80VU-2, 1 ATR-104/Aria, 2 ATR-104, 6 ATR-102. All the ATR's were rebuilt by ATR Services.
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Analog was Studer & Ampex. In 2002 we had;
5 A827, 5 A800 MkIII, a dozen or so A820, 4 A820/Cello 4 track, 2 A807 4 track, 1 A80RC, 1 A80VU-2, 1 ATR-104/Aria, 2 ATR-104, 6 ATR-102. All the ATR's were rebuilt by ATR Services.
holy crap!! i have a few questions?
4-A820/Cello 4-track.......where, might i ask, are those beauties now?
are those 1"?
i wonder if the Cello circuit is both input and output and how the EQ switching is implemented?
what it might take to switch them to 2-track 1/4"?
is the Cello circuit installed in the overbridge?
any info would be appreciated. i'm just sitting here dreaming.
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IIRC, that auction took place in Sept 07. It was handled by Joseph Finn Co and they did have a somewhat detailed listing with pictures but it doesn't seem to be available as far as I can see. I know one of our members, beefman was going to bid on several machines (820's in particular). He may have bought one of the Sony Classical divisions machines with the Cello electronics.
Hopefully he can chime in here since I'd imagine that he has more of the details on those machines as well.
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The Studer/Cello A820 machines had the 6 RU 4 channel record play electronics and 2 RU power supply mounted under the deck. We had the following head assemblies - 1/2" 4 track ERP, 1/2" 3 track play, 1/2" 2 track ERP, 1/4" half track stereo ERP and 1/4" mono ERP. No 1".
The original Studer electronics were left intact.
We sold all of the Cellos at the '07 auction. No idea where they are.
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The Studer/Cello A820 machines had the 6 RU 4 channel record play electronics and 2 RU power supply mounted under the deck. We had the following head assemblies - 1/2" 4 track ERP, 1/2" 3 track play, 1/2" 2 track ERP, 1/4" half track stereo ERP and 1/4" mono ERP. No 1".
The original Studer electronics were left intact.
We sold all of the Cellos at the '07 auction. No idea where they are.
hi Dominick,
thanks for the details; i own an A820, and am now looking for 'better than stock' output electronics. mounted underneath; huuummmm.
i assume ERP stands for Extended Response Playback?
that Cello circuit might just be the way to go if one could get their hands on it. i wonder how those 1/4" half track stereo ERP heads compare to the stock OEM heads in my Studer......since the Cello circuit was obviously designed for those heads.
it does not cost anything to dream about it.
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i assume ERP stands for Extended Response Playback?
I assume it stands for Erase-Record-Playback, in other words the standard arrangement for a machine that both records and plays. I notice that he described the 3-track as play only.
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Mikel,
ERP = erase, record, play
The stock heads are used with the Cello unit, the preamp on the head assembly is bypassed.
We sold the Cello electronics for a reason.
After living with stock and Cello modified A820, our engineers preferred working with the stock machines for 2 track or switched to ATR Services rebuilt ATR 104 machines.
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Mikel,
ERP = erase, record, play
The stock heads are used with the Cello unit, the preamp on the head assembly is bypassed.
We sold the Cello electronics for a reason.
After living with stock and Cello modified A820, our engineers preferred working with the stock machines for 2 track or switched to ATR Services rebuilt ATR 104 machines.
Dominick,
thank you for the explanation. interesting you prefer stock to the Cello. i do really enjoy the performance of the stock circuit in my A820; however, a few weeks ago i was able to hear a custom circuit A/B'd (a friend wired a switch in front of the heads) with the stock circuit and it was lower noise, more natural, and more detailed. it was easy to hear a layer of grunge on the stock circuit in direct comparison to the custom circuit. having heard that i'm very much interested in improving my stock Studer circuit.
the one problem with the custom circuit was that the bass slam and microdynamics was better with the stock circuit.....likely the custom circuit was not perfectly matched to the Studer heads (or maybe some other issue with the circuit).....which is why i asked about what heads the Cello circuit was designed for.
anyway, i really appreciate the information.
i also have a Jeff Gillman (MDI Precision Motor Works) refurbed ATR-102 i'm also wanting repro electronics for.
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Mike,
I think that there is a difference between the needs of a studio and listening pleasure.
After all, the Cello electronics were designed with the end user in mind. They were, however, adopted by several studios for production of several releases. The CD releases of the Mercury 3 tracks and Pope Music were two that come to mind.
For machines used for transfers, accuracy is paramount. Any enhancement of the playback should be done later by a mastering engineer before a product is released. Getting these master tapes transfered to digital leans more to the scientific than the artistic end of the continuum and I believe this is how it should be.
I'm sure there are practical considerations I could only guess about. It could be that some of the automated features of the 820 are lost when the internal playback electronics are bypassed?
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Mikel,
ERP = erase, record, play
The stock heads are used with the Cello unit, the preamp on the head assembly is bypassed.
We sold the Cello electronics for a reason.
After living with stock and Cello modified A820, our engineers preferred working with the stock machines for 2 track or switched to ATR Services rebuilt ATR 104 machines.
Domenick-
As I remember it, Sony got the Cello electronics several years ago (including the equalizer) for a project restoring some older tapes? Which recordings they were escapes me right now.
Did the engineers prefer the sound of the stock Studer because of sonics or other reasons?
Myles
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The Studer / Cello machines were purchased by Sony Classical early '90's.
When Sony Classical moved into W 54th St. in 1994 the machines came with them.
As Mikel mentions, the modified circuit he heard was quieter & more detailed but something was not right with the bass. There is always a give & take and the tradeoffs must be chosen to best fit the program.
Each of the 9 mastering engineers at Sony NYC 54th St. had different reasons why they preferred a machine. The did not all choose the same machine. Some preferred Ampex, some Studer, some chose machines on a project by project basis, but the Cellos were rarely used.
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I have never heard the Cello tape machines, but I had some experience with Cello units in the 90's, as I owned several Cello systems at that time - first a Preamplifier Palette and Duet amplifier, later an Audio Palette and Etude amplifiers. The electronic modules used in the more expensive units (as well as in the Apogee based reference DAC) had definitively a "flavor", adding body and some sweetness to sound, making it very nice sounding. But the cheapest units, based in Analog Devices ICs were cleaner sounding - the Preamplifier Palette and Duet were a fantastic match for Quad ESL63, making a very neutral system.
Another characteristic of the Cello units was that they were difficult to match with other brands.
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Folks:
I have one of the Cello 4-track Audio Suites from that auction. John French and I bid together for one of the machines, having arranged that he would take the RTR w/ headblock and I would get the electronics w/ Cello head cabling (this one had no PSU). Another fellow got 2x complete A820 units as well as an A800, while the last one went to another guy.
I'm planning to interface my unit to my Otari MTR-20 for 4-channel playback one of these days. I have substituted 2x HP lab power supplies to replace the +/- 30VDC from the Cello PSU. Yes, I'm still looking for a source of three-channel stereo masters. <g>
There was also a fairly complete stereo Audio Suite + PSU that sold at that classic auction for $5K (or so) and then was resold by a UK dealer for around $8K, as I recall.
Sony was a big customer for Cello back in the day. When Sony started selling "surplus" on eBay, I bought a variety of items and woundup with a three-chassis stereo mastering Audio Suite, which had been replaced by a 7.1 Massenburg setup. I sold that unit to a collector and mu guess is that it's sitting in his warehouse.
Mark Stahlman
New York City
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I should have guessed that you would have been all over that auction Mark!
I'm not familiar with the MTR-20. I've searched for a listing of the models that Otari made and I've only found bits and pieces. Do you know of a site that has a somewhat complete listing of their machines?
Thanks again for sharing.
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Steve:
Sorry, I don't know of any comprehensive Otari now-and-then lists or websites.
I bought my MTR-20 from Fred Thal, the moderator of the (sometimes?) Studer list.
He is a collector of Studer and appears to be very knowledgeable. He also apparently once worked at Otari and considered the MTR-20 to be the only Otari machine that was Studer "class." You know how those Studer people are. <g>
Of course, the MTR-20 came too late to have any impact in the market and my guess is that only 200-or-so were ever made, which probably makes it even rarer than a Stephens.
I got a complete 1/2" 4-track machine plus the keys pieces of a 1/4" CTTC machine as spares plus the service manual -- without schematics which he said he never recieved.
This all began when I bought a 1/2" 2-track headstack that was supposed to be for the much more common MTR-12 but it was really for the MTR-20. Funny how those things happen.
There was one that recently sold on eBay in the LA area and its studio mastering cousin the 2-track MTR-15 shows up from time-to-time. The MTR-15 would probably make a good TP machine, if you're looking for a bargain and aren't scared off by the brand.
Mark Stahlman
New York City
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I know that Doc was looking for an MTR-15 a while back (and it seems to me that I saw a machine hiding behind the counter at the studio the last time I was there that looked and awful lot like a 15).
A year or two ago I was at a warehouse that was packed with Studers and Otaris. Along one wall were a number of parts bins for Otari machines. If there's anything in particular you might need, PM me and I'll try and hook you up with the guy that had them.
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There was an Otari MTR-20 at the studio recently. I bought it off eBay from a seller in LA...probably the one you saw, Mark. It was originally a 1/2" 4-track, but I fitted it with a 1/2" 2-track play head and a Bottlehead Tube Repro. It'll be in the Magico room at CES if anyone's going to Las Vegas next month. After that, who knows?
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Ok, so we have two guys with a wealth of first hand experience with the best machines out there.
It begs the question, what do you guys think of the MTR-20?
AFAIK, these were Otari's assault on the state of the art so how do they sound, operate and feel?
How do they compare to other top drawer machines and what are the differences between the 20 and 15?
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Steve:
My MTR-20 has done all that I expected of it -- excellent tape handling (from 7" to 14" reels) and I really like the ability to setup and align for many tape formulations. I also like using the CB-120 autolocator. This is a fully automated machine that was probably one of the last to be designed before digital took over, so it's the state-of-the-art at the end of the analog era.
It's a big-block studio machine, so the headblock is a prime candidate for substituting and the cabling should make it fairly easily for "wiring out" to external repro electronics . . . just as Paul has smartly done.
Plus -- much cheaper than an equivalent (?) Studer A820 and its a true 4-channel machine. Minus -- much more rare so parts will be a problem and AFAIK there are no schematics floating around in case it breaks down.
Mark Stahlman
New York City
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Thanks Mark,
I would guess that the schematics should be easy enough to find for you. Doc has some contacts with Otari and I'm sure he can obtain those if we ask real nice.
I'd be surprised if many of the parts and accessories weren't available from them also.
There was a posting on the Ampex list a while back that stating a fellow in Chicago had bought up Otari's stock here in the US. Here's a link to the posting about that I made here.
http://www.tapeproject.com/smf/index.php/topic,1186.0.html
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Hi Guys,
Was lucky enough to pick up a nice condition MTR-20 1/2" 2 track very recently but unfortunately there was no
manuals included. Can anyone point me to where I may be able to purchase both user and service manuals or
is this as I suspect highly unlikely? Perhaps someone can help with scanned copies. I would of course compensate
properly for time effort and materials
Kind Regards
Graham
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Graham,
If you find one, please let me know. I have been trying for a couple of years without success. I'd be happy with a scanned copy too, would even manage getting it scanned if I can find one to scan.
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Hi Graham & Paul,
I just remembered a friend in the UK that had a new Otari MTR-20 Manual W/circuts. He may still have it? Let me know if you want his email? If you guys find one? Please let me know,I still would like to get a copy?
Chris
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Hi Guys,
I tried [email protected] but the email bounced. There are a few other guys on the page www.Otari.co.uk that I will try.
The last link on the page is John French at JFR. I guess that you guys would have already asked John?
Cheers
Graham
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Hey guys,
I got an email from Chris in the UK today about the Otari MTR-20 manual. I'm trying to work out how we can all get a copy of the MTR-20 manual. I will keep you all updated!
Chris
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I'm emailing with Chris in the UK too. Looks like we'll all have manuals soon.
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Hi Guys,
I tried [email protected] but the email bounced. There are a few other guys on the page www.Otari.co.uk that I will try.
The last link on the page is John French at JFR. I guess that you guys would have already asked John?
Cheers
Graham
Thanks for the info Graham!
I'll post the UK Otari link in the "Reel to Reel Links" located in the sticky above the General Forum.
On this side of the pond, it looks like AheadTek is being a little more responsive to parts requests (at least for brake bands).
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/Smileys/audiocircle/banghead.gif) Sometimes it can be an uphill battle.
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Paul,
Received an email from you weeks ago and have replied. How is the manual duplication coming along?
Cheers
Graham