Tape Project Albums > Creek Bank

Creek Bank channel orientation question

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blaupunk:
There seems to be a parallel universe going on for this release please refer to TP Tapes General topic thread.
Can these threads be combined under the specific release topic?

I cannot speak to the differences of where the piano is/should be based upon the various LP/CD/TP issues.

All I know is that unless we are dealing with contemporary releases, we are at the mercy of archival facilities which may or may not be all that accurate.
This is the reality of the reissue business.
 
MEP the TP is not representing that these are the master tapes.  They are representing that it has been represented to them that these are the master tapes by the owners of the master tapes.

What I do not believe I have read is regardless of which channel the piano appears in does the TP release sound more "real" than the LP/CD release?
My listening chair is an Ekorness platform recliner which rotates 360 degrees.
I can listen to the music frontwards, or backwards which functionally reverses the channels.

Why don't we all take a breath, remember that the TP is about the enjoyment of music and not life and death matters and wait for an answer which ultimately must come from the owners of the master tape, not the owners of the TP.





 

joeljoel1947:

--- Quote ---There seems to be a parallel universe going on for this release please refer to TP Tapes General topic thread.
Can these threads be combined under the specific release topic?


--- End quote ---

I created the parallel universe because nobody at the TP was acknowledging the issue in this thread.  So I thought I would try the general section too.  Finally, after a months wait almost to the day, we have a response that they are looking into it.


--- Quote --- wait for an answer which ultimately must come from the owners of the master tape, not the owners of the TP.

--- End quote ---

How are you so sure? 

mep:
Blaupunk-you are wrong.  The TP are representing the tapes they sell as coming from the original master tapes.  I don't remember reading any disclaimers from the TP that states otherwise.  That is the whole premise the TP was founded on-using the original master tapes to make their running master tapes on 1" 2 track tape to then be duped on the 1/4" tape you buy.  Me thinks that maybe your chair has swiveled around in circles one too many times.

From the TP website:

How are the tapes made?
A: Our duplication process begins with the actual analog master tape. From that we make analog running masters on one inch two-track format. The one inch tape format transfer results in a extremely low loss of information, which we consider more like 1/2 generation than one full generation. These running masters are copied in real time to a bank of finely tweaked Ampex ATR-100 decks, yielding a "1-1/2 generation" copy. You just aren't going to get any closer to the original master, short of buying a record label or two.

blaupunk:
Mep/Joel,
I would ask that you please read my post a bit more carefully.  Please allow me to recap.

To MEP,
Unless the owners of the TP were the original recording/mastering engineers with the ownership rights to the master tape which they have maintained in their personal possessions for all these years; how do you think they get access to these master tapes?

They approach the owner of the master tapes and make a deal for the recording rights there to.
What if the owner of the master tapes is incorrect?  Is that the TP's fault?
What if the data on the box says it is a master tape, and it turns out not to be so, or visa versa.  Is that the TP's fault?
The point is that the TP or any other would be reissuer of any given title is at the mercy of the folks who own the master tape in the first place.
It seems to me that there is a lot room for error in this reissue business.

To question the TP because their reissue is in conflict with two other previous reissues is logical.
To acknowledge (so that even I would get the message) that the search for the answer to the question is ongoing would be the preferable play.
I suspect that these matters can be quite complicated and may take a lot of research when and if a question of source authenticity arises.  But in the end since TP was not there at the time TP will always have to rely upon the information, cataloging, knowledge and honesty of the master tape owners.
I cannot and will not fault the TP for that or any resulting mistakes that result from the misinformation of others.
That is the chance I took when I signed up.
Does the TP really need to issue a disclaimer for what seems to me to be the obvious vagaries of the master tape procurement process?  Perhaps so.
I do expect the TP to do their due diligence.  Each TP owner strikes me as sincere, knowledgeable, well positioned in the recording business and honest.  That is good enough for me.
I am not sure this advances the topic.
However even with the best of intentions and with the assurance that you have the master tape, there are obviously room for doubt with any release.
In conclusion, it seems to me that the tone of the discord is that majority rules and that by using that criteria the TP issue is more suspect to be in error than other two reissues. I am not ready to throw in with that logic quite yet.
And as for my chair, it may have indeed swiveled a few too many times, but my head is still screwed on tight and I suggest temperance and caution
in this discussion.
A little humor and perspective wouldn't hurt either.
To Joel,
I am so sure because in the end the TP is not the owner of the master tape.  Unless there is independent corroborating sources of information from persons with first hand knowledge the TP will always have to rely upon the resources and knowledge of the owner of the master tape.
Therefor logically the answer must come from the master tape owner.
That is unless you are inferring that there was an error in the dubbing of the master tape by the TP.
I do not have the knowledge or expertise to tilt at that windmill.
 

mep:
Blaupunk-I find your second response to be rather convoluted.  I read your first post carefully and upon further reading, I see it is written with the logic of a lawyer.  In the case of Creek Bank, I don?t think that Joel is questioning whether or not the TP had the master tape at their disposal.  I do believe that he is inferring that somewhere in their reproduction chain, the channels were reversed.  It shouldn?t be hard or take long to figure out what happened.  Either every other release is wrong and the TP got it right or the opposite is true.

As for all of your legal speak about the TP not representing the  tapes as master tapes because they don?t own them, you are right in that aspect. The TP is not in the business of licensing master tapes for commercial use.  Rather, the TP has a business model of acquiring the rights to use master tapes to make a limited number of copies for sale to their subscribers.  These tapes that are sold to the subscribers are being represented as having been made from the master tape by the TP and let their be no confusion about that.  The only exception to that is the Linda R. tape which the TP figured out that they didn?t have the master tape, but made the decision to use it anyway and notified the subscribers of the problem as the tapes were shipping.

In summary, I think you have taken a very simple issue and clouded it with lawyer logic.

Mark

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