Tape Project Albums > Creek Bank
Creek Bank channel orientation question
astrotoy:
See my comment/analysis in the general TP tape discussion section. It could be that the stereo record and CD were both taken from the same master or dub, so the channels would be the same on both, even though they were almost 20 years apart. Larry
joeljoel1947:
--- Quote ---It could be that the stereo record and CD were both taken from the same master or dub, so the channels would be the same on both, even though they were almost 20 years apart. Larry
--- End quote ---
Hi Larry,
Unless the TP used a different master (and saying that there should only be 1 of them in pure theory, right?) then all 3 should line up with each other. The cd lines up with the LP, but the TP release is opposite both. Since Doc said they used the original stereo tape for the TP dupe, its just not making sense on how their release is different then the other two. Furthermore, I guess I'm perplexed that someone at the TP would not have compared their "master" of Creek Bank or even the duplicates of that master that we end up with back to the stereo LP version at some point. Wouldn't they want to know if its sound quality was any better or worse then the stereo LP? I guess I'm put together differently as my sheer curiosity of how each format stacks up to one another using the same release makes this the 1st thing I do if I do not have the other formats already--get the lp of the TP release, the cd of the TP release, and the sacd/hrx if available and start comparing away. I guess I'm one of the few doing this which is interesting in itself. For example, my post in the Naylor forum asking whether or not anyone has compared TP-001 to the cd version has been sitting there for almost 2 years now, with not a single reply!
ironbut:
Hey Joel,
Something you may not have considered is that after recording the master tape, the artist, the producer or even the record company may have insisted that the channels be reversed. Or it could be that Allison/van Gelder agreed to record it with the piano in the right but the record company wanted it the other way around. There are a lot of possibilities here. Also, I doubt that Paul would've gone through the trouble of rewiring the machines when making the running masters. So, I'm sure that however it is on the master tape is how our copies are configured.
So, would one be right and the other wrong? Personally, I don't think so. After all, switching the channels is nothing compared to the "wrong speed" that Kind of Blue was released as. God knows how many subsequent releases were actually made before a "speed corrected" version appeared from Classic Records.
I think that once the lp was released with the channels reversed from the master, the subsequent releases followed suit.
Trying to figure out the motivations of previous releases could be researched but it would take a good bit of time I'd guess. And even if you could get an answer from someone who was there, would their recollection of what happened so many years ago be accurate?
I guess the bottom line is,..
Do I trust that my tape is configured the same as the master?
Yes
Do I think that the channels are reversed from other stereo releases?
Sounds like it
How do I want my tape configured?
The same way the master tape is
astrotoy:
Hi Joel, My best guess is that the LP reissue and CD were taken from the same tape which could have been a dub with the channels reversed. My comment in the other thread speaks to that - since the voice is in the wrong place (middle) if the piano was really on the left side (voice would be hard left). As to comparing with the CD or other sources, since I collect classical LP's, I have originals of all the classical releases that are in the first two series (all but Exotic Dances - where I have the HRx release), and have compared them to the TP releases. Since I don't collect jazz or pop to any great extent, I won't be buying CD's etc. for comparison purposes. I think the only one I have that isn't a classical is "Waltz for Debby" in the Acoustic Sounds LP reissue and their SACD (which I got with a bunch of used SACD's for about $3 each). Frankly, I hadn't heard of most of the jazz and rock/pop artists (like Mose Allison, David Alvin, Robert Cray, etc.) However, the range of music put out by TP has expanded my musical horizons. I'll continue to do comparisons with my vinyl collection for the next two Reference Recordings - Church WIndows and Nojima Plays Liszt, which I have had in my vinyl collection for 20+ years.
--- Quote from: joeljoel1947 on April 03, 2010, 01:18:23 PM ---
Hi Larry,
Unless the TP used a different master (and saying that there should only be 1 of them in pure theory, right?) then all 3 should line up with each other. The cd lines up with the LP, but the TP release is opposite both. Since Doc said they used the original stereo tape for the TP dupe, its just not making sense on how their release is different then the other two. Furthermore, I guess I'm perplexed that someone at the TP would not have compared their "master" of Creek Bank or even the duplicates of that master that we end up with back to the stereo LP version at some point. Wouldn't they want to know if its sound quality was any better or worse then the stereo LP? I guess I'm put together differently as my sheer curiosity of how each format stacks up to one another using the same release makes this the 1st thing I do if I do not have the other formats already--get the lp of the TP release, the cd of the TP release, and the sacd/hrx if available and start comparing away. I guess I'm one of the few doing this which is interesting in itself. For example, my post in the Naylor forum asking whether or not anyone has compared TP-001 to the cd version has been sitting there for almost 2 years now, with not a single reply!
--- End quote ---
mep:
Ironbut-Somehow I seriously doubt that the record companies would insist on reversing the channels. Why would they give a damn which channel the piano came out of? They wouldn't. Joel's questions need to be taken seriously and answered thoughtfully by the only people who can answer this and that is the TP principals. Don't be so quick to rule out a TP mistake in the making of this tape Ironbut. I saw a response by Doc that says they are looking into it and everyone should wait for the offical response as to what happened-and me thinks something did happen.
Mark
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