The Tape Project and TAS

[mstcraig]

Hi all. I had the chance to email Robert Harley of TAS a few days ago to ask some questions. One of these was about TAS reviewing the Tape Project albums and machines. What follows below is the email I sent to him, and his reply to me:


 ----- Original Message -----
    From: [email protected]
    To: [email protected]
    Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 10:28 PM
    Subject: some questions, if I may

    Hi Robert. Love the magazine and look forward to each new issue. I have two questions for you. 1) Are there any plans to review any of the Tape Project recordings and/or their modified Technics open reel machines? 2) Whatever became of J.Gordon Holt? He does not appear anywhere on the masthead. Is he still with us? Thanks, Craig



Dear Craig:

We had some communication with the people at The Tape Project about Jonathan Valin getting a Technics SL-1500 and some tapes, but they have not pursued the review.
 
J. Gordon Holt lives in Boulder, Colorado and is active as am amateur recording engineer. He no longer writes for any audio magazine, unfortunately.
 
Thanks for the kind words about the magazine.

Best regards,
 
Robert


Anyone from the Tape Project care to comment on the above? Is this avenue being pursued or not? If not, why? Curious minds want to know, namely, the ones in my own head...
   

[joeljoel1947]

Well, they said (TAS) that they would be doing an open reel vs. LP vs. digital shootout in an issue from September 2007 of last year.  That fell through because according to DocB on an AA post he made they had been just too backed up to meet consumer demand and also get the stuff into TAS hands.

That said, all they (TP folks) need to do is submit a basic Technics (even WITHOUT a Bottlehead or Repro) playing in its native NAB (not even the right EQ curve!!!!) of TP-003 Arnolds Overtures (so the TAS folks would have the reel in pure analog, the lp in pure analog, and the cd in pure digital) and it would be a LIGHTS OUT WIN for their tape.  Better yet, I'll send TAS my Otari Mk.3 console (or B2 or B3) with a Seduction tape head amp and it would be an even FURTHER lights out win for tape.

Why they (TP folks) are not JUMPING on such a challenge and a review in a mag that is so "audiophile accepted" such as TAS is beyond me.  I PERSONALLY would be all over that one haven listened to these tapes versus their counterparts!

Just my (somewhat strong) opinion....

Joel

[Ben]

My guess sadly is "why review a product that will not make money?". I suspect a mass
market R2R could be designed with solid state for playback only that would be in the same ballpark as high quality turntables. The problem is the ipods and the $29.99
cheap chinese products that seem to define low-fi products.All the magazines I have seen want to sell me  $2K interconnects or snake oil caps for the high end.  Consider what would happen if they compared it to a SACD's and the SACD lost. That would mean every digital product would be out dated, and you would have to pay real $$$, for media and duplicating costs, so every CD (err now tape} would loose { 200%? } of the profit made.

Still I would like to compare the 'best 7 1/2 tape' possible with a CD just see how they compare if anybody wants to duplicate a TTP tape, as a informal test.

[Kenkirk]

Still I would like to compare the 'best 7 1/2 tape' possible with a CD just see how they compare if anybody wants to duplicate a TTP tape, as a informal test.

I have done this with a 4 track. The source was a Tascam TSR 8 multitrack. The music was a local blues band I recorded multi mic, multi track. I mixed it down to stereo on my Teac X2000r at 7.5 ips usig my Mackie 24/8 board. I also made a stereo mix on my Alesis Masterlink at 24/88.2. I then used the Masterlink to rip red book cd's at 16/44.1. I used my Wadia 860 to play the cdr. I compared the Teac 7.5 ips tape to the cd, and also to the 24/88.2 master on the Masterlink. The tape sounded better. Only place the 24/88.2 sounded better was in the kick drum slam. But overall, the Teac sounded more like the 8 track master. My Otari MX5050 b III ( stock )at 15 ips 2 track pretty much nails the sound of the Tascam 8 track. But as you know, this is all mid-fi pro gear. The TP tapes are made with the best. I have not gotten to the bottom of these tapes with my Otari, that is for sure. I would think the difference between 7.5 ips on a nice 2 track deck vs. red book cd would be even greater. But in all systems, you need the speakers to be able to hear this stuff.

Ken

[Ben]

No, you need the ears to hear this stuff. Age is catching up to to me, so I figure I'd get
a good sound system while I still can hear it. Thank you for this information.I had expected the CD to win,but I guess it is more Cassette ¹ quality like people are now finding out. For some reason I can't tell much between a CD & SACD
but I do know the few tapes I have more life than digital.

(1) I was going to say 8-track but I might get banshed for a month saying that word here.

[Kenkirk]

No, you need the ears to hear this stuff. Age is catching up to to me, so I figure I'd get
a good sound system while I still can hear it. Thank you for this information.I had expected the CD to win,but I guess it is more Cassette ¹ quality like people are now finding out. For some reason I can't tell much between a CD & SACD
but I do know the few tapes I have more life than digital.

(1) I was going to say 8-track but I might get banshed for a month saying that word here.

Ears and experience for sure. And I think a good cassette is much better than cd. My Nakamichi Dragon can make just about a perfect recording of a lp, cd and SACD. Only the reel to reels are too much for the dragon to handle. Well actually it gets about 90% of the TP tape sound, but it is still like a veil comes down on the music. But the copy I made of one of my TP tapes on my Dragon is still the best sounding cassette I have ever heard. But when I want to listen to it, I just cue up the reel.  Too bad they did not make a 2 track Dragon that ran at double speed.

[Ben]

Part of the problem, I found was when cassettes became popular
the market changed from component stereos to all in one units.
Then boom boxes and the rest is history. Out west here in Canada
all I had was Radio Shack for Hi-Fi since I grew up in a small town.
I knew Hi-Fi existed but just not in this store.
Only recently have I had any spare cash for things other than food
and rent, thus I never could afford equipment that was quality and
a good value for my money. I do have DVD/CD player and about 5 cassettes.
I had a $5.00 used tape deck. That died so I picked up a new one for $10.00. That was DOA. That pissed me off... the rest is history as I have a Otari MX-5050 now.

[ironbut]

In the early 70's I had a friend who worked at Radio Shack in a suburb of Atlanta Georgia (where I grew up). They used to have a pretty liberal trade in policy so folks would bring their old tube gear and leave with some of the latest transistor equipment. My friend had a nice assortment of HK Citation and Dynaco components to drive some very smooth sounding BBC monitor type speakers. All obtained for pennies.

[Kenkirk]

I used to ride my bike to Radio Shack several times a week and just dream about having a fancy stereo, cb radio, etc. One of the family friends upgraded his hi fi to stereo and donated to me his Williamson tube amp and Heath FM tuner. I then was given a huge home made speaker ( 4.5x 3.5x 3.5 feet ) with University Drivers and crossover. It was mono, but you could hear it and feel the bass across the street. Later as a teenager in the 70's, I saved up and bought a Kenwood KR 4070 receiver. Finally I had state of the art, no warm up time. When I first turned it on, I just sat there wondering what was wrong... It was loud, but not nice, not musical. But I decided that is the way recorded music is supposed to sound, and I moved on. Fast forward 30 years and I friend hooked up a nice tube amp one evening. All the memories of beautiful music came back. The next day I went on a tube amp hunt. Ended up with the Cat gear. At the time I owned a  very nice pair of Classe CA 300's in monoblock. I have heard some of the best solid state amps out there including the Mark Levinson 33's, Halcro's, etc. The Cat amps sound better to my ears. I will never go back to transistors for my main stereo system. Magic in those tubes!!

Ken

[Ben]

I suspect tubes have magic cause they just go poof. Magic smoke holds transistors together. Here is my view point on sample rates.

Regardless of the high powered math of other people ,a reasonable sine wave requires 6 sample points. A quick graph will show you that. Lets see for a CD 40 Khz / 6 is  6.6 Hhz , not to impressive. I have a few SACD's but I have no idea what sample rate  they run stereo. The format is again for surround sound only. If they down covert
to CD  rates. we are back at square one again.  With the digital formats  I am not questioning the digital data, but how accurate the DAC's are. Rather than play -- upgrade your DAC game -- I picked the real winner : Tape. ;)