Tape Project Forum

Tape Project Albums => Suite Espanola => Topic started by: ironbut on May 01, 2008, 04:12:45 PM

Title: Your Spoiling Us!
Post by: ironbut on May 01, 2008, 04:12:45 PM
Just looked at that subject line,.. what a strange saying that is.
TP-005 is here! I got off work early and was a little bummed since I'm trying to save up some cash for VSAC (I'd like to buy a round of drinks for any members that show, and right now it's looking like club soda) That now familiar, box was waiting for me. I haven't had a chance to listen to it yet (tubes are warming) but it's unexpected arrival brought on a fit of fist pumping.
While I have your attention, I'd like to shamelessly plug VSAC. There are now over 200 members of this forum and all the releases of the Tape Project aren't spoken for yet. My figures tell me and Jethro that some of you are still on the fence. If you haven't had a chance to hear the tapes than you should register for the Vacuum State of the Art Conference immediately. Doc will have a room for the TP/Bottlehead gear and I'll have my rig with a pretty nice headphone set-up.
If that isn't enough, yesterday a news flash over on the Bottlehead forum (Audio Asylum) announced a new block of seminars featuring some very big names in the pro-audio community. Our own Paul Stubblebine and Michael Romanowski will be presenting a few. I was blown away by the line up. Any of you who aren't can host my exhibit while I go to these seminars (please!).http://vsac2008.com/index.html (http://vsac2008.com/index.html)
Title: Re: Your Spoiling Us!
Post by: docb on May 01, 2008, 05:17:19 PM
Thanks for the plug about VSAC, Steve. I been laying a bit low because while all you guys are planning the entertainment, somebody gots to build the system! Me and tech Shawn are hammering away at the amps - 18 of 'em. That means prep and shoot paint on 18 chassis plates, blue 18 transformer bell ends (and about a zillion screws), build up 18 each of the PC boards for power supply and regulation, glue up 18 bases, mount hardware 18 times, wire up 18 chassis...talk about repetitive.

PJ just got back in town and I gave him one night's sleep before I was on the phone bugging him about our last minute alterations to the speakers that will driven by the 18 amps. Looks like Plan B is in effect, and it just may ROCK.

What's that? Two and a half weeks to get all this done? What on earth will I do with all my spare time?
Title: Re: Your Spoiling Us!
Post by: ironbut on May 01, 2008, 05:40:03 PM
Since I've known you, when have you had spare time! I was just thinking that for some amp builders 18 amps is a years production.
Title: Re: Your Spoiling Us!
Post by: scully280 on May 05, 2008, 08:51:29 PM
TP-005, so that's what that enigmatic UPS email was.  I've been wondering all weekend...  It's gonna be tough to wait for 2 days.

Title: Re: Your Spoiling Us!
Post by: Ben on January 21, 2009, 10:17:35 PM
I'll take a RootBeer, Ironbut
I think this was a plan by doc to sell more 300B amps.
I have a 6B4G set amp ( 2 watts max ) and no way can it keep up
with side A, of TP005 for dynamic range and with good volume
for the quiet passages. I still believe in the first watt is the best
but to get any dynamic range another 5 watts (rms) feels right
now. With the DB meter +2.5 in the red, I can see now just what
is needed for power, for a realistic amp, and good efficient speakers (96+dbm).
I can shoot myself in the foot for building the wrong sized amp,
but what I did not realise was how low the standard of music has sunk.
When I first started building a sound system 3 years ago, all I had to judge
was with CD sound and volume levels and 2 watts looked reasonable. The tapes seem to show what is lost over the last 40+ years, and is headroom and linearity
and low IMD as well.

Title: Re: Your Spoiling Us!
Post by: jcmusic on January 22, 2009, 07:46:01 AM
Two watts is more than enough with the right speakers, try some Klipsch speakers horns and sensitivty.

Title: Re: Your Spoiling Us!
Post by: ironbut on January 22, 2009, 12:01:47 PM
Yeah, that tape's got some wide dynamic swings. I think it's sent more than a couple of us to the drawing board to rethink our gear, but I think that's a good thing. Or rather, I think that's a great thing about these tapes and one of the promises that they've fulfilled. Having a true reference source and not just what the industry would like us to think is one totally eliminates the front end of our systems as a limiting factor. And once you have your system set up to play these tapes to your satisfaction, you can sit back and enjoy the fruits of your labor and know that new kinds of media will come and go, but they'll never demand more from your rig.
Title: Re: Your Spoiling Us!
Post by: steveidosound on January 22, 2009, 12:33:48 PM
Well said Steve !
Some thoughts on dynamics and power-
Ben, if your system's real undistorted peak power is 2W and your speakers are 96dB 1W/1m, then your system's max level into the room (not counting the rooms own acoustics) would be 99dB (double the power = 3 dB more). If you went to 5W it would be 103-4ish.
You should be able to observe this with a simple spl meter from Radio Shack.
Something to remember here is 3dB more speaker efficiency = doubling the amp power = a just preceptable change in level.

So, if you set your current system volume for around 98dB at your listening position (probably possible in small room) on orchestral peaks, the minimum volume would probably be some 70dB down from that, which, you are right, is pretty darn quiet! Lower than the ambient noise level in most rooms. If you raise the minimum to say 40 then the max goes to 110 ! So that is more like 10-20 W from your amps. I am not sure if the tape has an observable dynamic range of 70dB. That is pretty extreme for ANY analog media. A real live symphony in a hall can be more like 80-90 range.

Digital media is supposed to give you that sort of dynamic range, and it might do that but there are obviously other sound issues we hear. The irony is that most pop music today is compressed into less than a 5dB dynamic window down from "0". I have observed with vinyl and cds that just a few more than that, say 10dB peaks over the average level is the minimum needed to give pop music any type of "punch" or "life" even if the music itself has no real dynamics.