TP-028, Nat Adderley's Work Song is now available

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Messages - joeljoel1947

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General Discussion / Anyone know what's going on at Otari USA?
« on: December 09, 2008, 11:38:05 AM »
I used to get GREAT service from Mitch there, now there is some Taka guy running the place AFAIK.  All I need are 4 meter lightbulbs for a B3 and its like pulling teeth to get them (been trying to contact them for over a week now)!  When you call now, nobody answers the phone anymore either.  It just goes to an automated system and eventually you need to leave a message with "Taka", and good luck with that.  He finally replied to one of my emails stating that I need a part number to order the bulbs.  Well, according to the exploded diagram, the meter bulbs aren't even on there!  All I used to have to do before was pick up the phone, Mitch would answer, and I;d say, "Hey Mitch, what's up?  Need 4 meter bulbs please."  3 days later I'd have them!!

Hopefully the recession didn't cut Mitch out of the loop.  He would be sorely missed!!!

Tape Project Albums - general / Re: Tape Project Selective Sub
« on: December 09, 2008, 08:11:09 AM »
This is fantastic, I have subscribed at the right time!

No kidding!  I've been waiting nearly 3 months now for my TP-007.


General Discussion / Re: Anyone here going to CES/T.H.E Show in January?
« on: October 27, 2008, 08:21:30 PM »
I'm booked and am going for sure!!  If anyone else from TP is coing then let me know and possibly we can meet there and share tape stories!


General Discussion / Re: Anyone here going to CES/T.H.E Show in January?
« on: October 25, 2008, 01:56:02 PM »
Hi Mike/Jay,
I agree that THE Show was more relaxed and laid back.  The NFS room at THE Show alone was worth the trip Mike if you know what I mean.
Your spot on about CES Mike----pretty serious and there were a few manufacturers who approached me about carrying their lines at CES which was pretty funny as I am not a dealer myself.  I have friends who are and I tagged along with them.  All it took to get in was a business card from their audio store with the owners name crossed off on it and mine written in with ink pen!  So, obviously, if one wants to go as a layman it can't be too tough to get in.

I really want to go to RMAF next year.  I believe that is where the more "passionate" and down to earth/hobbiest audio-folks now go. 

Anyhow, let me know if you guys are going to CES/THE Show, we should meet in person at the very least.

Take care, Joel

General Discussion / Re: Anyone here going to CES/T.H.E Show in January?
« on: October 24, 2008, 05:59:03 PM »
Hi Jay,
January 8th through 11th.  That's a Thursday through Sunday deal.  Much better then last years which started on a Monday.  Have you ever attended one before?

Regards, Joel

General Discussion / Anyone here going to CES/T.H.E Show in January?
« on: October 24, 2008, 07:46:06 AM »
Just curious if anyone here is making the trek to Vegas.  I went last year and had a blast.  Matter of fact, that is where I was "re-introduced" to the open reel format!  It was in Winston Ma's FIM room and the sound was glorious.  Now, some 5-6 decks later, I believe in entrenched in the format.  ;)

Anyhow, I'm 98% certain I'll be going back this year.  Any fellow TP fans coming?  Also, are there plans for a "Tape Project" room there or are there going to be decks loaned out to various rooms like last year?

Regards, Joel

Ben---I agree but that's really not what I'm talking about here.  For "Exotic Dances" it was recorded BOTH ways---100% analog all the way through for the TP release and 100% digital all the way through for the HRx release.  No conversion happened anywhere from analog to digital or vice versa.  So "Exotic" marks a great oportunity to hear the digital and analog masters and compare them.

Dolph--thanks for the informative post!!  I think you hit the nail on the head when you speak about the better microdynamics in analog.  Basically, the acoustical space, air around instruments and depth of the music seems to get "lopped off" in digital.  You lose "presence".  Much of that, as you rightly point out is because of the higher noise floor---all the micro and macro dynamics are preserved and not "cut out" like digital often does.

The HRx release I heard was probably the FIRST digital recording I've heard (and I was a BIG SACD/DVD-A fan) that didn't seem to have this issue.  So, that's why maybe "for the few" like you and I this will be VERY interesting to compare the HRx and TP release of Exotic Dances---to see if the differences you speak of hold up.  I think they will, but I'm curious to confirm it.

Good points Doc.  Sometimes my enthusiasm gets the best of me (there's a newsflash, eh?) so calling this a "showdown" was probably not the best terminology to use.

1 test like this on 1 release does NOT settle any sort of debate of digital versus analog.  But I do think it will be interesting to compare them anyway----It's all just for fun.  I don't think a consumer has actually ever gotten THIS close to the pure digital/analog masters to even attempt such a thing before!

 I have a feeling the TP tape will "win" purely based off my experience with "Arnold's Overtures" which is the same deal---pure digital for the cd release and pure analog for the TP release.  The TP tape DESTROYS the cd, but the cd is basic 16/44.1.  24/176 should level the playing field some with the HRx release "Exotic".

We'll try to make the comparison as fair as possible between the formats with regards to the equipment we use.  It will be monitored over 185k Genesis 1.1's for starters, so some decent stuff.

Now I just need my Exotic tape.  ;)


Thanks guys for putting my fears to rest!  Paul, thanks for the scoop on what happened to Exotic Dances.  And no Paul, I think twice repeating you are working from analog masters was enough.  ;) 

So now that will setup a showdown with Exotic Dances----HRx digital master vs. Tape Project 1.5 gen analog master.  Place your bets everyone!!!


I thought to "think" as much as you state (which is why I ordered "Exotic Dances" on TP) but now thinking more deeply I'm not sure that in 1996 with LP's tossed by the wayside and HDCD and digital in the fore-front that they would have still had those analog tapes a runnin'.  I just want to be sure the thing I spent $200-$329 on, is the same thing I can now get for $40 off of the RR site as a master copy if you know what I mean!  ;)

You're welcome.  And if anyone reading this (DocB?) can get us some info on the source of the "Exotic Dances" TP release it would be MOST helpful.

I asked my friend your question and here was his response.  I hope this helps:

In response to your post on the TP forum.  In order to be successful at rendering playback of high res digital sources to any playback system, if it be in it's native format i.e. 24/176, 24/192 or anything greater than 24/88.1 or transferred to 15ips tape playback, great care must be paid to the digital to analog conversion path.  It is not only crucial to have very high level conversion but cabling and power supply need to be given great attention.  Specifically for a tape transfer the recording machine needs precisely setup and again cabling and power conditioning can make an incredible difference.  It is my opinion that even with the digital to analog conversion system that I am using, while it cannot be technically better than the source files, a digital high res. source when transferred to 15ips tape medium not only retains nearly every ounce of resolution but gains a "pleasability" (my new word!) factor that results in the perception, from most listeners, of being better than the source.  To produce good results with a digital playback system using a computer you can choose a number of different setups but I have two that I can recommend.  The first would be a very good budget system that sounds exceptional without spending a lot of money.  It would consist of a fire wire audio interface from TC Electronic called a Konnekt 8 and power conditioning from Isotek systems.  The next option would be a much more expensive (but not outrages) setup that would use converters from Apogee in the forum of the Rosetta 200 along with their Big Ben master clock.  This last system while not esoterically priced compared to some other options provides an exceptional level of playback fidelity.  This setup again combined with the best cabling and a power conditioner called the Titan is stunning.  The interconnecting cable that I use in these high level situations is the CCS wire from Vampirewire.  Everything that I have mentioned has met my personal auditioning for my own work. Best regards,Joseph L

General Discussion / Reference Recordings HRx format and the Tape Project
« on: October 13, 2008, 04:54:46 PM »
Hi all,
I just wanted to pass along some juicy info.  If you have not checked out the new HRx format by RR, then I implore you to do so.  Here is some info here:

Anyhow these are master digital 24/176 files and you need a computer and sound card that are compatible to take the data discs they send you (at like $45 a pop) and either play them on a music server or (better yet) put them on 15 IPS open reel tape.  The disc they send you is not playable in any other format (although I think if you had a record cutting lathe you could probably go down that path too.  ;)

A friend of mine and I bought one of these things to try out ("Crown Imperial") as I also have the HDCD commercial release of it as well to compare the HRx to.  We took it from 24/176 on his PC and dumped it onto 15 IPS open reel tape.  The results?  AMAZING!!!!

Yesterday we spent some time together comparing the 24/176 "tape" we had made to the HDCD version of the same work I had bought (level matched in real-time).  Well the difference my friends was NOT subtle.  Kind of like the difference between comparing a TP tape to a cd of the same work.  The tape sounded MUCH more open, expansive, natural, dynamic and all-around smoother and silkier.  The HDCD sounded (by comparison) compressed, "glarey" and hard overall.

Bottom line is I don't think I've ever heard digital sound like this!  It sounded totally analog!!  I mean it was RIGHT up there with TP-003 that I have, "Arnold's Overtures".  The sonics were THAT good.

I also noticed that RR has now released an HRx version of "Exotic Dances Of the Opera", which is also a TP tape!  I was thinking about that and was Exotic Dances ever released on LP?  I thought RR only ran analog tapes when they were going to release an LP of a work.  Does anyone know if the TP "Exotic" is 100% analog all the way through??? It was made later in the game---1996, so I don't know if they were still running tapes in that era.

If so though, we may have the ULTIMATE digital vs. analog shootout on our hands----Exotic on 1.5 gen all-analog "master tape" from the TP and also on 24/176 all "master digital" on the HRx format.  Does anyone know if the TP release was sourced from the same 24/176 digital file though??

Anyhow, I EMPLORE you to check out the HRx format.  For $45 plus some tape you really have something to "fill in the time" when you are waiting for your next TP release to be delivered.  Unbelievable stuff and right up there with the TP releases!!!!!!!!

Take care,
Joel K.

General Discussion / Re: The Tape Project and TAS
« on: October 07, 2008, 07:37:20 PM »
Well, they said (TAS) that they would be doing an open reel vs. LP vs. digital shootout in an issue from September 2007 of last year.  That fell through because according to DocB on an AA post he made they had been just too backed up to meet consumer demand and also get the stuff into TAS hands.

That said, all they (TP folks) need to do is submit a basic Technics (even WITHOUT a Bottlehead or Repro) playing in its native NAB (not even the right EQ curve!!!!) of TP-003 Arnolds Overtures (so the TAS folks would have the reel in pure analog, the lp in pure analog, and the cd in pure digital) and it would be a LIGHTS OUT WIN for their tape.  Better yet, I'll send TAS my Otari Mk.3 console (or B2 or B3) with a Seduction tape head amp and it would be an even FURTHER lights out win for tape.

Why they (TP folks) are not JUMPING on such a challenge and a review in a mag that is so "audiophile accepted" such as TAS is beyond me.  I PERSONALLY would be all over that one haven listened to these tapes versus their counterparts!

Just my (somewhat strong) opinion....


Arnold Overtures / Re: TP-003 - Oh my!
« on: October 07, 2008, 04:23:33 PM »
I agree.  This tape is what it's ALL about.  Compared to the redbook all digital version on Reference Recordings cd there is NO contest between this tape and the cd.  The tape is so much more open, dynamic and spacious!  The ambience of the hall that is captured on the tape is completely "lopped off" on the cd version.  The cd just sounds compressed, and there is an odd hardness and glare to the sound that is just not on the tape which is SILKY SMOOTH tonally by comparison.

If ever somebody wanted to argue what was better, analog or digital, THIS TAPE would be the 1st thing I would pull out in defense of analog (the cd version was recorded 100% in the digital domain which is what makes this such a reference tool type release!)!!



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