Tape Project Forum
Tape Project Albums => Tape Project Albums - general => Topic started by: xcortes on January 08, 2009, 12:54:38 PM
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Anyone else here hiting refresh every 30 secs to know the 2nd series titles?
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I'm just doing that to find out the status of the 1st years run ... I was expecting
something after the big ice storm and Christmas, now I guess I have to wait till
after CES for more info. I assume the shipping method they use *does* deliver into Canada with out shipping hassle.
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I have been checking in all day.... salivating.... I think I just need to heat up the tubes and grab a beer. This is too much like Christmas....
Ken
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I told myself that I'd be a good boy and be patient but the suspense is killing me! I think I've hit every audiozine site and been back here at least 20 times today.
On the other hand, I don't think I would've liked to have been at ground zero when that Otari box was opened yesterday. The cumulative blood pressure in that room must've been enough to fill a tractor tire!
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I can't see how you can kill a Otari. That machine must be a total write off.
I hope the doc had it well insured.
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I hope they post some pictures of the sacrificed Otari! But they really need to practice modifying these beasts! It is like when an artist burns his first 100 paintings, and is now ready to start. :-)
Now lets see if they can get a laptop connected and give us the scoop on the new titles!!
Ken
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OK folks, the new page is up. And I happen to be listening to the tapes as I type.
Mavis, Kenny, damn...
http://www.tapeproject.com/catalog/catalog.htm (http://www.tapeproject.com/catalog/catalog.htm)
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Whoa, Monk just came up. Holy S**t! I've been listening to a CD for the past few months while we negotiated that one. On the Vivid speakers with Luxman electronics we're listening to Sonny's tenor hits you in the GUT.
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Oh - My - God!!
Monk, Respighi, Little Hatch, what more could I ask for? OK, Doc: how do I get the $ to you for Series II?
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I'm working on it Joe. I'll try to get order buttons up by tomorrow morning. But right now I gotta listen, it's the first time I've heard 'em. ooooh Yeeeaaahhhhh.
(http://www.bottlehead.com/loosep/onahighernote.jpg)
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Hmm, I still can't find the new titles listed anywhere. The link you put up takes me to the series one catalog??
Ken
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The link you put up takes me to the series one catalog
scroll down
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It took me a couple of times, but the 6 new titles are at the bottom.
Mmm,.. Brilliant Corners,.. yummmmmmm!!!!!
Yow! Kenny and Coltrane! Yeppppppp!!!
Staple Singers,.. Little Hatch and a couple more of Keith's wonderful recordings !!!!!!
You're gonna make some members mighty happy!
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Looks like a converted RS1700? And it looks like it made it there all in one piece.
Now I wish I was there! (boohoo)
Have fun,.. excellent choice on the Monk BTW.
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That photo is from Philip O'Hanlon's penthouse suite at the Mirage, where we are doing a little opening party. It's Philip's machine, which was built by Tim dPV. Our 1500 and Tube Repro is in the TAD room at the Venetian.
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I'd imagine that they're using those cool sculpted looking Ayre mono blocks. Pretty darn nice sounding for solid state. I bet they really take those TAD's by the short hairs and shake em.
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i like the choices, thanks.
i had spoken to Chad at RMAF about RTR and so i did expect one of his Blues titles to be included; good choice on Little Hatch.
i just spent an hour finding and buying CD's and Lp's of 'The Staple Singers' and the Respighi 'Church Windows' (the 45rpm Lp of this is coming from Germany). i have 45rpm Lps of the other one's (33rpm for the Nojima) already and they are all what i would call....'tasty'.
i've been working on setting up my digital for hi-rez downloads; so i'll be able to compare that on some of the RR's.
all in all these are all excellent sonically and musically and continue the 'high standard' of series 1.
mikel
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I haven't got the Little Hatch myself but I've heard it a few times at my local dealer. Great sounding stuff for sure. I'm really glad to see that the first solo piano is a RR. I've always treasured piano recordings that really sound like the real thing. Somehow the scale is almost never in evidence.
I haven't heard that Staple album in quite a while but I did hear a Mavis on NPR a couple of weeks ago (she was a guest on " Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me") and she is a kick in the pants. Really looking forward to hearing that in all it's glory.
I have to say that when you look at the catalog as a whole, it's pretty freakin' impressive. Doc, Paul and Michael are making us early adopters look like geniuses.
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I can honestly say -- I don't know any of them.
While I still need 60,000 more pennies for a selective subscription
I guess I will have to wait until the other 4 titles are released but they all look
so good. I want to buy now.
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More a wish list here. Will we be getting any music from Europe?
That includes the UK.
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Hey Doc, you might tell Paul that Sennheisser has introduced their new flagship headphone, the HD800, there at CES. It's the results of 2 years of development and is a ground up new design. The only listening test has been from the founder of Headfi and he is loving it . It features a brand new ring radiator driver totally different from anything else used in headphones up to this point. Here's a link to Jude's pictures.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/the-jude/sets/72157612254832521/
I'm sure I'll have to buy one whenever they're available just to find out for myself if they did what they set out to do,.. build the most accurate dynamic headphone on the market? (man, do I sound like an ad man or what?)
Here's a link to an uploaded Senn brochure;
http://www.flickr.com/photos/the-jude/sets/72157612254832521/
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I have the 45 rpm recordings from RR of both "Church Windows" and "Nojima Plays Liszt". I bought the Respighi after reading J. Gordon Holt's review in Stereophile. While it is a stupendous recording captured by Keith Johnson, keep in mind, if you are not familiar with it, that the orchestra and venue, are not top tier (recorded in a high school auditorium).
The dynamics are spectacular. This is one of Respighi's most overlooked compositions, a tone poem in 4 sections, each one devoted to a window and what the window depicts. "Church Windows" actually is what inspired me to explore more of Respighi's work, including "Pines of Rome", "Fountains of Rome", "the Birds" and another of my favorites "Ancient Airs and Dances" so well captured by Bob and Wilma Fine on the Mercury Living Presence label, under the baton of Antal Dorati.
I also have an original pressing of "Brilliant Corners" as well as the reissue. I am really looking forward to the treatment on tape of the mono master of this great work too.
Great choices guys, and thanks!
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for the mono album am i right assuming that both tracks contain the same signal or is it a one track tape or one track per side?
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Looks great, I'm in for Series II. Larry
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for the mono album am i right assuming that both tracks contain the same signal
You are correct, Xavier, both channels contain the same signal. You'll experience it first on the Sonny Rollins, TP010, which is also mono.
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Too bad I couldn't find a way to wear only on track at a time. I have a funny feeling that the Rollins tape is going to spend a lot of time on the ole Technics.
I'm sure that it depends on how the stereo version is made from original mono recordings, but just how much do you think is lost during the process Paul?
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the Sonny Rollins, TP010, ... is also mono
didn't know that. Thanks Paul
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Does that make it 1/8" tape ... :)
I am glad to see that mono is on the list.
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I was wondering about that too.
The configuration for mono that is.
It could be set up as 1/2 track mono with a side one and side two, and duplicated just as easily.
One half the tape used as well. One reel instead of two. The only downside is a bit of cross talk might be possible from the opposite side.
And people don't have the easy switching provision on equipment any more to route the left channel only to both speakers.
So, it is being released as 2 identical mono tracks in the same direction.
It could be argued that it is better to listen to only one track for phasing and alignment issues and one speaker for mono.
Someone will have to do those experiments.
Another possibility would be a full track mono release but that is incompatible with all the equipment setups for stereo duplication so we won't be going there I would assume !
I think I will move this whole topic over to Tape Tech and call it listening to mono tapes...
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OK folks, the new page is up. And I happen to be listening to the tapes as I type.
Mavis, Kenny, damn...
http://www.tapeproject.com/catalog/catalog.htm (http://www.tapeproject.com/catalog/catalog.htm)
Dan,
When hit the order button for the selective subscription for series two the price comes up as $1470 is this correct? Please explain?
Jay
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I was sitting in the TAD back room yesterday trying to put up all those different prices without the benefit of a quiet place to chart it all out first, so I may well have goofed. Lessee, for renewing subscribers the per tape cost for an album is $250 until Mar 1. So 6 x $250 - oops. Price should be $1500 plus $120 shipping, $1620.
I can see I pretty much blew the whole thing on the Series Two selective pricing, my apologies. I'll get it fixed ASAP.
Edit 9:12 PT
corrections have been made.
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So I am still a little confused, has the price gone up for series two tapes from the $200 price on series one tapes? Plus shipping?
Jay
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So I am still a little confused, has the price gone up for series two tapes from the $200 price on series one tapes? Plus shipping?
Jay
I am confused too. I can't imagine they would not offer original charter subscribers a chance to buy a charter series II for the same price as series one within the 2 month timeframe especially since we still have not received the last two series one charter tapes.
Ken
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I can't imagine they would not offer original charter subscribers a chance to buy a charter series II for the same price as series one
I do.
As much as I don't like paying more I can't argue with their price increase. Dan, Paul and Mike invested a lot in money and time to test a concept and start a business. The concept has proven to be a successful venture and they feel now that they can increase the price substantially (and start making some money) without loosing much volume. I certainly hope they're right and they can count on me to keep buying their tapes.
If after living the Series One experience you feel Series Two is too expensive you can always walk away. And you won't loose much because your series one tapes won't sell for much less than face value.
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I am more curious about why the jump from $200 to $300 per tape?
Mind you I have not been pricing cost of tape & reels over the last two years.
BTW ... who would sell a tape anyhow ... I plan to keep mine for life.
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In my opinion that is a pretty good jump in price, especially for those of us who took the leap of faith to start with. Further more we are talking series two tapes, and I still need three more tape from series one!!!
Jay
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My other question ... will single non subscriber tapes still be offered.
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In my opinion that is a pretty good jump in price, especially for those of us who took the leap of faith to start with. Further more we are talking series two tapes, and I still need three more tape from series one!!!
Jay
I agree, it might be too big a jump too soon. Tough economy too. Everyone has to make a profit. I understand. I run a business myself. But you also have to consider the competition. I my opinion, it is new 45 rpm vinyl. Some of us have big buck vinyl rigs that can boogie. Maybe not quiet as good as the TP tapes, but when you can get 6 new 45's for the price of one TP tape title, it is getting harder to justify the expense. Don't get me wrong, the TP tapes have set the bar in my audio room, but it is about the music. It might just be getting out of what I consider rational for feeding my analog habit. I will be thinking hard about this....
Ken
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I suspect the 45's are not the 45's I think of when I think of records.
The one thing I *know* is the source for TP tapes, is it not edited to sound
good, or fix problems. That I can't say of other music productions, that some how
don't have a real master tape to copy from.
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So I am still a little confused, has the price gone up for series two tapes from the $200 price on series one tapes? Plus shipping?
Jay
I am confused too. I can't imagine they would not offer original charter subscribers a chance to buy a charter series II for the same price as series one within the 2 month timeframe
Ken
The price for Series Two is more than Series One (and Series One is going to be more expensive for newer subscribers too.) We are offering existing subscribers a very substantial discount off the new price for Series Two.
We can no longer sell these tapes at a loss.
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Hi Paul, I understand that you can not sell these or any other tapes at a loss. My feelings are that I am being asked for more money and I don't yet have what I already paid for. I hope you guys understand my point of veiw. I love this project and would like to continue to be a part of it, but the waiting is far longer than anything I expected. It is hard reading post from others who have had their tapes for such a long time, and you are still waiting for yours.
Jay
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I suspect the 45's are not the 45's I think of when I think of records.
The one thing I *know* is the source for TP tapes, is it not edited to sound
good, or fix problems. That I can't say of other music productions, that some how
don't have a real master tape to copy from.
You are correct, they are not the little 45's we bought for a buck in the past. These are full size vinyl records, 180 or 200 gram weight cut directly from the master tape. They are reissues just like the TP tapes. They usually have 3 to 4 records per title. The increased speed and spacing of the grooves gives the cutting engineer more space to cut the record hot for better dynamics. They can sound incredible, but are pricey at around 50.00 dollars a title. But in my system, they are the next best thing to a TP tape, and not far behind. But tape rules.... but the price.... must think about this.
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I think the main problem is a lack of communication, surely these price increases could have been announced in advance instead of leaving people to find out when they go to the subscription page to place an order.
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Yes, A little warning would have been nice. I personally was expecting a price increase. But I figured it would be 10% or less so that attrition would be minimal. There are allot of software products competing for our money these days. BluRay is a big hit at my house. The audio is far better than I expected. Tons of new vinyl reissues from the master tapes. And many of us have less discretionary income dollars to spend do to the economy. So it is a bit of a shock to me to see such a large increase in cost of the TP tapes. I am not saying they are not worth the money. I am not saying the do not deserve every penny they are asking for. I am just saying it might result in more attrition to the project than they are expecting. I hope not. But that might be in their calculation of their new business model.
Ken
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Yes, A little warning would have been nice. I personally was expecting a price increase. But I figured it would be 10% or less so that attrition would be minimal. There are allot of software products competing for our money these days. BluRay is a big hit at my house. The audio is far better than I expected. Tons of new vinyl reissues from the master tapes. And many of us have less discretionary income dollars to spend do to the economy. So it is a bit of a shock to me to see such a large increase in cost of the TP tapes. I am not saying they are not worth the money. I am not saying the do not deserve every penny they are asking for. I am just saying it might result in more attrition to the project than they are expecting. I hope not. But that might be in their calculation of their new business model.
Ken
My sentiments exactly, I know some of us might be able to afford this increase easily but I'm sure that many can't and will drop out. There is also the danger that because of the reduced number of subscribers this project might peter out after while then what? I hope the last four titles yet to be announced come from some of the many suggestions put forward on this site, jazz and classical are not everybody's liking, classical for example is well served by sacd.
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Cough Cough !!! sacd , ipods what next! Cough! Cough!
Oh ya! Full range mini speakers. Yet I rarely hear about music
itself for just what is being produced new other than loud rap or rock
or people who just can't sing with out effect songs. The general public
is loosing the feel for what music is about, and that seems bad.
I hope the remaining titles will be some newer selections so more you
have more general interest.
PS: the only person who can't sing (my viewpoint) should be on a record
is Bob Dylan.
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I have to agree with you guys regarding being warned well ahead of time of an impending price increase. Not that it would've made much of a difference in any practical way, but it was a shock to see it on the order page. And while personally, I've been very happy with the choices of releases, I think it would be nice to have at least one hard rock album among the final four in the new series. Even though some of the folks that I've demoed these tapes for have said that these tapes sound so good that even though it's not the kind of music that they normally listen to that they'd listen them anyway, there are those who have invested in the first series who still haven't seen a tape that is in their favorite genre.
A while back, in a discussion on the Suggestions forum, a member who's been involved with recording, did make the very good point that many of the rock/pop releases were (and still are) made to a very low standard. As a result, the masters aren't up to the Tape Projects standard. I've been disappointed many times when I've bought reissued vinyl of a favorite album from the 60's-80's. I do think it would be great if we could get a classic rock album like " Gimme Shelter" and show some appreciation to those early adopters who've stuck it out with us Jazz/Classical nuts.
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Gimme Shelter would be nice, i was thinking more along the lines of singers like, Joan Armatrading, Joni Mitchell, Eva Cassidy, etc singers that are hard to pigeon hole into any one particular genre. A quick look through the suggestion post's shows that there are many others that have made excellent albums, recorded to a very high standard. Opera anyone??
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Hi guys. I don't usually follow this sub-forum, and just now read the whole thread, including the cost concerns. I suppose the big guns will say something eventually (after they recover from CES!) but I'll offer a bit of perspective.
I am not one of the principals, but I did participate in the early discussions, in the summer of 2006. As I recall, pricing had to be set around that time, as we were looking at announcing the project at the Fall AES or Janualy 2007 CES. This was long before actual costs could be known, but everyone was well aware that once a price was announced, it would pretty much have to remain fixed throughout the first series. It was a long and difficult effort. I have an initial spreadsheet from some of those discussions, showing estimated capital costs to get the first four albums produced - figuring that we needed at least that much to get started, and hoping that subscriptions would continue to come in and finance the rest of the project. I don't know the current costs, but I do know some of our assumptions at that time were much lower than the actual cost. For example, we budgeted $4000 to set up and refurbish the four ATR recorders; I don't think any one of them cost that little in the end. I know that the demo machines (those brought to the shows like CES) cost more than twice the original estimates.
Like I said, I'm not a principal, so I don't really know how close the project is to breaking even. But I do know that nobody is getting rich off of this!
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i'm in retail and price is always an issue to customers; and after the hit on all our assets over the last 3-6 months each of our discresionary incomes and available funds are affected. we all must make decisions based on our individual priorities.
personally; it's the music that is important to me. as i am convinced that The Tape Project offers the best possible software we are all ever likely to hear or have access to; i have decided to invest in these tapes. i am thankful for the huge commitment made by Doc, Paul and Romo to this project and realize that it's health and viability depends on having sufficient revenue to sustain it; including some return. since this can never be a high volume proposition those involved will have to spend some money. the time, the raw tapes, the space, the machines, the royalties; it's lots of money and i would rather have these guys charge enough to justify the effort rather than compromise the process or the quality of the music. any start-up business will have more expense than is originally predicted.....particularly one that cannot have dramatically increased volume (which is normally where cost efficiencies come from)
my hope is that enough people can continue to buy these tapes so it can continue. if The Tape Project did 'fold their tent' i think many would lament not investing. and the likelyhood of anyone else doing this would be dramatically reduced. we would all be the losers.
as far as how and when to talk about price on series 2; i think it would have been niave to talk price increase without also revealing some of the series 2 titles. it's the value of the music which makes the case for the investment.
just my 2 cents.
mikel
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my hope is that enough people can continue to buy these tapes so it can continue. if The Tape Project did 'fold their tent' i think many would lament not investing. and the likelyhood of anyone else doing this would be dramatically reduced. we would all be the losers.
as far as how and when to talk about price on series 2; i think it would have been niave to talk price increase without also revealing some of the series 2 titles. it's the value of the music which makes the case for the investment.
just my 2 cents.
mikel
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I'm sure everybody including myself want this project to succeed, as it will no doubt. The point was, that there was no talk period, about the price increases. i would suggest that its naive not to expect some comment regarding the way it was handled.
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I'm sure everybody including myself want this project to succeed, as it will no doubt. The point was, that there was no talk period, about the price increases. i would suggest that its naive not to expect some comment regarding the way it was handled.
i recognize that anyone posting here wants this project to succeed. my comments began with a recognition that price will always be an issue and fair game to discuss.
i manage a large Honda automobile dealership. trust me; the whole world has an opinion on the price i charge and long ago i got over taking that personally.
OTOH a business does not use the democratic process to price it's goods (that's how government works, and we can see the result of that); and you never see a price on the new model until it is offered for sale. then the marketplace either supports it or it does not based on the percieved value for the price. my point was just that, as customers, it is not reasonable to expect to be involved with setting pricing or seeing furture pricing on products not yet offered.
i am not questioning anyone's right to offer an opinion on the price; only that somehow they are 'irritated' that they were not consulted first......and that is not the real world.
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[/quote]
OTOH a business does not use the democratic process to price it's goods (that's how government works, and we can see the result of that); and you never see a price on the new model until it is offered for sale. then the marketplace either supports it or it does not based on the percieved value for the price. my point was just that, as customers, it is not reasonable to expect to be involved with setting pricing or seeing furture pricing on products not yet offered.
i am not questioning anyone's right to offer an opinion on the price; only that somehow they are 'irritated' that they were not consulted first......and that is not the real world.
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Agreed. My personal concerns ( opinions )were that the increase seemed too much too soon in a poor economy. I am afraid of attrition and the loss of the project. With the cost of a TP approaching 5 or 6 new 45 rpm vinyl reissues, it is getting harder to justify the expense. The tapes are the best. But I blow through allot of analog music. I crave new titles on a regular basis. These 10 new titles a year are a drop in the bucket. A very nice drop in the bucket, but you can only listen to the same title so many times before you get tired of it. I have not made a decision.... I seem to be on the fence and that sucks. Two of my friends have already bought Charter subs to series one after hearing TP tapes on my system. I have been very commited.
Ken
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Mike
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i am not questioning anyone's right to offer an opinion on the price; only that somehow they are 'irritated' that they were not consulted first......and that is not the real world.
Mike
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Mike,
i don't recall any saying that they were irritated or that they expected to be consulted first, thats silly. The point was that nobody said anything at all about the price increases. It was left for people to find out when they went to the subscription page. If the original price is not high enough to cover costs or make a profit then of course the price needs to go up. I'm sure everyone who subscribed to the first series is grateful to be able to do so, it really is quite possibly a once in a lifetime opportunity. I personally never thought I would see the day that someone would put in all the hard work necessary to get such a project up and running and am more grateful for that than mere words here can convey. I took out a charter subscription for the first ten tapes and will do again for the second series for that very reason.
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If we didn't increase the price, the Project would most certainly end. PJ's post explains a lot of why. I remember Paul, Romo and I having a long discussion about our pricing on the way to CES 2007. When we started costing it out with the real numbers we had spent rather than our original projections, we saw that even at $200 we were going to take it in the shorts for a while. As regards when we announced the increase, that is not what's important, it's how long we give folks after the increase to get it together. We have given folks nearly two months to subscribe to the next series at a special pricing, before it goes up to the full increase.
We appreciate that you have played your tapes, Ken (which as I recall you purchased from an original Charter subscriber via ebay rather than from us) for folks who later subscribed. Thank you! This is a critical part of helping the Tape Project grow, letting folks hear some exceptional recordings of exceptional performances on an exceptional format.
And Steve, hey man, I wish we had a bunch of rock titles too. We are working on it, and that's why we still have four slots open in the series. Maybe if a bunch of enthused slightly off kilter tape guys started bugging the major labels... Choosing a range of genres in order to keep everyone happy is really not very easy. It sure would be easier if guys who listened to tape only liked polka music.
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Yeah, I'm sure it's the rock acts that make it hard to get rights to their stuff too (as in $$$). I just love to state the obvious don't I?
OK,.. so how about the big CES post Doc? And don't forget the photos of PB on stage with the show girls and PS doing the duet with Cher.
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Suddenly 10 hours of Bobby Vinton come to mind.
I just grumble of the cost of shipping, and people
speculating around with price of the dollar more than the
tapes. I don't see it as a bad economy, rather the idea that we import
cheap rather make our own products has gotten out of hand.
Back to 45's , since a 45 is about 15 minutes as a guess, you
need about 4 - 45's to give 60 minutes of tape time. As a guess of
$50 per 45 that still comes to $200 a tape price range.
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"It sure would be easier if guys who listened to tape only liked polka music."
That's it !
Some Lawrence Welk for one of the remaining series 2 titles !
(It was getting a little tense so I thought I would throw in a bit of bad humor...)
Ben, 45RPM 12" re-issue albums are typically priced per album (with 2-3 discs) not per disc.
Completly off topic, some last issue 7" 45 stereo singles with the big hole that we are all familiar with from the 80s and 90s were mastered very well and exhibit excelent dynamics and low distortion etc. when played on a good quality system.
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I bought the Neil Young Greatest Hits Classic Records release when it first came out. It included a 45 with "Sugar Mountain" which I love. It took me 2 months to find that darn 45rpm adapter (even though you can buy on for cheap, I knew I had one ). It was worth it though. I still have lots of Beach Boys era stuff and some Beatles on those. Scratched to hell, but still, playing "Red Rubber Ball" by Cyrkle (?) really can bring back some memories.
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The only thing sold out here are the $29.95 CD/DVD players so I know very little
about reissued records of any kind. I was thinking The Muppets and ballroom
dancing sketches when you quoted "... polka music", and the Blue Faceless puppets
playing the trumpet.
I can see it now.
We had planned some Music by Dr Tooth? but Animal ate the dub
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We appreciate that you have played your tapes, Ken (which as I recall you purchased from an original Charter subscriber via ebay rather than from us) for folks who later subscribed. Thank you! This is a critical part of helping the Tape Project grow, letting folks hear some exceptional recordings of exceptional performances on an exceptional format.
Oh no, I did not purchase anything from Ebay! :-(
I gave you my credit card information over the phone personally! I paid full price and think it was an excellent move on my part! I just wanted to clear that up! I am not a scavenger and don't want to be portrayed as such! And you might also consider extending the deadline to buy series II after we have all received our series I tapes. Just a thought.
And thanks Doc for all of your work!
Ken
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Personally I would accept a pancake and a label! :-)
But I must admit that fine art work and box is fun to show off to friends!
Ken
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Gone but not foregotten
Amen and thanks,
mikel
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Ken I do apologize to you here publicly for my confusing you with someone else regarding your subscription. I was out of line in not checking the facts before posting. Once again I will thank you for sending us new subscribers. That is something that means a great deal to us.
Our intention is to complete shipping of all of Series One albums to anyone who is currently subscribed by the end of February and to begin production of Series Two in March. Because of this we feel that March 1 is an appropriate date to end the special offer.
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I thought I might add my perspective to the price increase wars, too. First off, I am not a subscriber as of yet. I'm just a regular working guy who happens to have exceptional hearing, kind of like most everybody else on this board. I do make live recordings to open reel tape, as I'm sure most on this board probably already know. I am a HUGE fan of the reel format. However, I will admit that Paul's rather curt (IMHO) sounding response to the flack over the price increase does beg some questions to be asked. For example, why was this financial issue not addressed long ago, and shared honestly with the subscribers? If the TP guys are losing that much money, why not put in for a modest increase a year or more ago? I'm sure anyone here will agree that a 50% increase is a bit much, especially for something that is clearly a luxury item. Secondly, are there not ways to combat the cost of the final product? Things like less elaborate packaging, more master recorders to make more dubs at one time (going from the present four ATR-100's to six or even eight), switching to RMGI LPR-35 to get 45 minutes per tape instead of 30 minutes per tape with RMGI 468, etc. I'd even go so far as to suggest that the TP copies for customers are done at 2:1 or even 4:1 copy ratio, so more of them can be done faster, with little sacrifice in the final sound quality. Please do not misread my intent here. I echo all the sentiments about the Tape Project succeeding. But, as KenKirk has stated, a line must be drawn somewhere here in the real world. To wit: I have a wife and an adopted son with special needs. I work at a real job, which means I make far less than I believe I should. I am not like Mikel, in either what I do for a living, or in all of the nice toys he has to play with, but I oh so wish I was! Every year I have been married, thirteen at last count, my wife has out-earned me (she is a teacher of Special Education). She already thinks I've lost my mind. Imagine the look on her face when I tell her I have a music subscription that cost me just $3,000! I'll need to then move into my car, or the local sanitarium. All I'm saying is that most people here are just regular folks, with everyday bills to pay. And as much as it pains me to say it, I must reluctantly agree that 45 RPM LP's are looking like a better alternative to have high quality music reproduction in my home. I know how hard the TP guys have worked on this. But, unless cost can come back down to the real world so regular folks can take advantage of this, it will only be a matter of time before the whole thing crashes down. Paul's comments really deflated me Sunday when I read them. I mean here I am, busting my hump to make it in before the February deadline, and I read that?! I guess what I'm trying to say is that the way it came across to me, it was as if Paul was blaming the customers for the Tape Project losing money all this time, and it very much rubbed me the wrong way. I suppose, if I can get my subscription in before the deadline, it will be both my first and last one. I cannot justify this kind of outlay when there are so many other things that need to be paid for, like the house, car, and my son's education. And, I certainly cannot afford to spend my very hard earned money with anyone that displays contempt for me, the consumer, no matter how wonderful their product is. If anyone is offended by my words, I'm sorry. But, please know that they are true in the eyes of both my heart, and gut.
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All this is true, but it the series II pricing is throwing off people. I have known about
the tape project since it started, so I have had time to think about money for TP when the chance for me to get a R2R came along. So when the chance came for me buy R2R, I did have some extra cash* to buy TP tapes.
I am looking at late summer, early fall to order series II, and by then I hope to know the remaining selections.
*The real reason I got TP tapes is I got new speakers, and I felt then, I could get a music source with the quality TP tapes claimed to have. SCAD and DVD/A just to my ears don't sound better than CD's.
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...However, I will admit that Paul's rather curt (IMHO) sounding response to the flack over the price increase ...
Not sure if that was directed at me or Paul Stubblebine - if it was to me, I apologize for that - I certainly did not mean to be curt, guess I was just being defensive. These guys are friends of mine, after all!
I do understand the frustration about expense. I myself am retired on a fixed income with a (badly shrunken!) 401(K) and a bit of consulting income from Bottlehead to supplement. Frankly, I can't afford these tapes, much less a machine to play them on. I get to hear them at docb's place, on a system that I mostly designed, once a month or so - that's as close as I get. (I do subscribe to the symphony and opera seasons here in Seattle; I could only afford the tapes and machines to play them if I gave both of them up. Which I won't do - the absolute sound is still absolute!)
I am however incredibly glad that the Project is happening. Well done analogue remains the best source material there is, and in the age of MP3 we are in danger of losing entirely any reference standard by which to judge our audio efforts.
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wooo
I am series one Subscriber, I have reveived 4 reel tape,but I want know what time will I receive the other reel tape ?
If I order series two, Is the price 3000USD?(shippoing to China).
BTW: My TP008 photo is wrong，the photo is the TP005 ,next time if you shipping other reel tape ,please give me TP008's photo .thanks
my Subscriber No:084
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I was just thinking, it is the price of the metal 10.5" reels that I suspect has
the biggest price jump for new tapes. Just how long is a TP tape album?
Cutting it down to a single reel, could in theory I guess cut the price down
about $75, but then I really start to wonder if the tape has any archive quality
left. Tape stretch,breakage and warped reels after the next 25 years?
I guess I need my ear trumpet at a young 75 years, so having a tape last that
long might not be a worry now. :)
Ben
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I just wanted to say that I think it is time to just back off of the money talk. I think it is nice the owners gave us a forum to talk about the tapes and machines and music etc... But from here on I don't see anything constructive coming from this. We all have to make our personal decisions about what we want, what we need, what we can afford. And the owners have to this also. So we just need to dig a little deeper! So what else is new? :-) The main thing is the Project needs to live and breathe. We want more tapes!
Ken
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Hi Craig,
Thanks for your impassioned commentary, and thanks Ken, Mike and everyone else for your participation. I tend to agree with Ken that it's probably time to get back to talking about the new titles themselves here, but I also feel the obligation to address some of the concerns expressed in this thread, after which I think I will lock the thread.
It was not Paul's intention to sound curt. But we felt it was not appropriate to express our passion in that situation, because that kind of thing can often be misconstrued. And so Paul posted what he felt was a simple factual response.
We are not blaming the subscribers for the needed price increase, far from it. We of course appreciate subscriber participation, there would be no Project without it!
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, when we started the project we realized we had the ability to deliver the best possible quality of any format, the closest you can get to the master as an end user. It is very time consuming and demands exceptional attention to detail. That is where we intend to remain focused, delivering the best possible transfer on the best possible tape with the best possible packaging, creating something extraordinary. There may well be other folks who start labels putting items out on tape with speed of production and low cost in mind. But that's not what we desire to do.
I'm not sure how to address this situation of folks feeling that the subscription price is somehow constrained by their particular priorities in life. We don't know six months ahead that the tape manufacturer will suddenly raise the price of raw tape, or what the subscription level will be a year from now so we can plan our equipment purchases to meet demand (by the way, purchasing more ATRs could speed up delivery, but it won't create an immediate price reduction when the cost of the machines might be around $12K each). So we can't project an increase in June that we didn't have knowledge of needing until December. We have done our best to soften the blow by offering a special price to current subscribers.
I do know that I was surprised that when we started we got subscriptions from so many folks who were selling off other toys to get tape because they didn't have the disposable income to subscribe. I suspect you will find that most of us are in a situation similar to yours. My newest car is 14 years old. I have a kid headed for college and another in modeling school. My house is 70 years old and needs about a $100K remodel that isn't going to happen for some time. My 90 yo mom lives across the street on a limited income and demands larger and larger amounts of our time for care. I can assure everyone that I've spent a lot more than $2500 on the Tape Project. Whew, a lot more...
And I will also mention here that while this discussion ensues amongst those of you who are expressing your concerns, we are receiving subscription orders for Series Two. The comments from those who have already re-upped are very positive, I really appreciate them, and I think those folks deserve recognition for their support. Thanks!