Tape Project Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: MylesAstor on March 21, 2010, 11:29:27 AM
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Like to have whatever they're smoking :)
http://cgi.ebay.com/BRAND-NEW-Technics-Reel-to-Reel-RS-1500US-RS1500US_W0QQitemZ150422208080QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVintage_Electronics_R2?hash=item2305dcbe50 (http://cgi.ebay.com/BRAND-NEW-Technics-Reel-to-Reel-RS-1500US-RS1500US_W0QQitemZ150422208080QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVintage_Electronics_R2?hash=item2305dcbe50)
Myles
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Yikes!
If that machine goes for anything close to that, I hope there's going to be a big party at their house!
When I was shopping around for a Garrard 301, there was an oil bearing one that was still in the box and I could hardly believe it sold for a whole $2500 US. I guess that was a bargain compared to this (of course that was quite a few years ago).
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Yikes!
If that machine goes for anything close to that, I hope there's going to be a big party at their house!
When I was shopping around for a Garrard 301, there was an oil bearing one that was still in the box and I could hardly believe it sold for a whole $2500 US. I guess that was a bargain compared to this (of course that was quite a few years ago).
Yes some of these prices have gotten out of control. For instance, a Technics SP10 table going for 9k :(
Myles
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For instance, a Technics SP10 table going for 9k :(
Myles
yes, but at $9k the SP-10 Mk3 is better (subjectively, of course) than any other tt you can purchase for $9k. i've added a Steve Dobbins plinth to mine and removed the case. it is pretty damn awesome. the market place is not $9k because it's vintage; it's because it offers a direct drive system which cannot be touched anywhere near that price....in other words it's $9k due to the value of it's performance. i dare say that a $100k Technics RS-1500 does not offer performance value at that price.
mikel
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I can't recall a time when SP-10's weren't in pretty high demand. IIRC, they sold for $1200 when they were new and at the time, it just seemed like an insane amount of money to spend on a turntable without an arm.
I really wish that some of those big companies would put out statement products a little more often. Of course they aren't all game changing, but some of them are good enough to rattle the cages of small esoteric shops.
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Of course, the only reason they are selling the 1500 for $100K is to get attention. They say that they will consider offers. If it has any extra value it is only if it remains unopened. However, it could be a junked machine - you will only know if you open it. Hope someone offers $600 or so. Larry
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If you look at the seller's feedback, he/she had sold fire arm to water filter... I often see very valuable audio gear put up for sale by antique dealers with no appreciation for the equipments but have some ideas from Googling the piece for prior sales - demanding large amount for the unit and trolling for suckers to bite (like me...).
I bought one of my master recorders from supposedly a local seller last year who turned out to be a traveling Craiglist "WTB Vintage Highend" gear person from out of state. He told me he posts his WTB ads around the country ahead of time for his visits to the major cities and resells them on eBay. We met at a place about an hour away from Seattle and to my surprise, he didn't even own the recorder at the time of the transaction. He demanded the money first to take his 40% and handed over the balance to the real owner - a couple who looked to be in need of the money badly. As I was leaving the parking lot with the recorder in the back of my car... I felt bad about the whole deal for the couple and for myself for being a sucker - going against my own advice I had given to other people who wanted to buy a tape recorder... telling them to do the basic tests before buying instead I had bought a recorder from a Saftway parking lot...
The seller for the $100K 1500RU reminds me of the traveling Craigslist guy...
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Wow, that's quite a story Ki.
I guess in the end, if the couple gets the money, he gets his cut and you end up with a nice machine things aren't too bad.
It goes to show that even with well established buy/sell sites, the "buyer beware" sign is still in place.
Maybe it's a sign of the economic climate but there seems to be more "sharks" in the waters. It could be that these "sharks" have just learned to eek out more profit from auction sites etc.. (Padding their profit with large shipping/handling charges for example)
If I think about it, I also browse the sellers feedback not just for the "positive/negatives" but the balance of buying and selling items. I can't help thinking that some of the inflation of prerecorded tape prices we've seen lately is due to those folks who've bought the tapes for low/reasonable prices and are re-selling them with starting prices that insure that they'll at least break even. Of course, that's what many of these markets have evolved into.
I recently received a tape that is a dub of the the original. The tape stock appears to be used and the reel is a much lower quality. Other than that, the labels are almost exactly the same and slightly distressed to appear aged. The box is a little larger (depth) but without having several other copies of this same tape, it would have been difficult to say for sure that it's counterfeit. I'll be posting something about this latter when I do a little more research into the matter. For now, suffice it to say that the sound of the tape is pretty low quality. I can hear the low quality playback/record amps imposing their will on what is normally a fantastic sounding recording.
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If that machine goes for anything close to that, I hope there's going to be a big party at their house!
When I was shopping around for a Garrard 301, there was an oil bearing one that was still in the box and I could hardly believe it sold for a whole $2500 US. I guess that was a bargain compared to this (of course that was quite a few years ago).
Hey Steve,
I can tell you the exact date of that auction: November 3, 2005. How I know? I was the buyer and I purchased it from the hospital the same day my daughter was born. Probably one of my best purchases in audio measured by pleasure when using it, reliability and trustiness. I've listened to it every day since then. I still have three quarters of the original grease tube.
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No Way Xavier!
That's funny. The next time I was looking for a 301 was several years latter and I was kicking myself for not buying that one!
Man, 2005,.. how time flies!
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It's a small, small, world indeed.
Steve,
I am interested in learning more about your suspect pre-recorded tape.
Ki
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yes, but at $9k the SP-10 Mk3 is better (subjectively, of course) than any other tt you can purchase for $9k. i've added a Steve Dobbins plinth to mine and removed the case. it is pretty damn awesome. the market place is not $9k because it's vintage; it's because it offers a direct drive system which cannot be touched anywhere near that price....in other words it's $9k due to the value of it's performance. i dare say that a $100k Technics RS-1500 does not offer performance value at that price.
mikel
Hi Mike!
No aspersions meant towards the SP10 :) Just the price! Then add in the Dobbin's mod and you're talking 25k. But I heard the Dobbins at CES and was really struck (NPI) by the 'tables sound. Sure it sounds amazing in your system -- in fact better than the Rockport based on my memory of the Rockport table when I set it up and maintained it for a friend.
Funny thing is that I can't remember a time in recent audio history where there's been a greater supply of great sounding tables/arm/cartridge than nowadays!
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Hey Steve,
I can tell you the exact date of that auction: November 3, 2005. How I know? I was the buyer and I purchased it from the hospital the same day my daughter was born. Probably one of my best purchases in audio measured by pleasure when using it, reliability and trustiness. I've listened to it every day since then. I still have three quarters of the original grease tube.
LOL.
Myles
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Xavier,
One of these days I hope to meet your family.
When that day comes, I'll be sure and keep the fact that you were bidding on a turntable while your wife was going through closely spaced contractions to myself!
That's usually not the sort of thing that, after a given amount of time, you both could look back on and laugh.
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Hi Mike!
No aspersions meant towards the SP10 :) Just the price! Then add in the Dobbin's mod and you're talking 25k.
none taken; i was just 'splaining why the high value.
actually; when you add the Dobbins Mods even to $9k (i paid a good amount less 2 years ago) the total would be less than $15k....IF... you could find an SP-10 Mk3. it is important to note that there is a large difference between the market value of a good Mk2 ($800--$2000) and a Mk3 ($7000++++).
But I heard the Dobbins at CES and was really struck (NPI) by the 'tables sound. Sure it sounds amazing in your system -- in fact better than the Rockport based on my memory of the Rockport table when I set it up and maintained it for a friend.
Funny thing is that I can't remember a time in recent audio history where there's been a greater supply of great sounding tables/arm/cartridge than nowadays!
in truth; the Rockport smokes it in musical nuance, low noise and ease of presentation. in fact; when i play my best RTR master dubs it really shows just how much closer the Rockport is to a master tape than any other source. i think a linear tracker gets phase correct in a recording as only master tape can. any pivoting tonearm will only have phase correct at two momentary positions on the record. and PCM digital never has phase correct as it's lost in the decimation process.
this Rockport you mantained for your friend; was it the Sirius III? there is a huge difference between the Sirius III and the other Rockports (i owned a Sirius II which listed for over $35k less than the Sirius III). btw, was your friend who owned the Rockport an artist living in Manhattan by any chance?
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MikeL-Pivoted arms only have perfect geometry at the two null points. But, how does that fact relate to phase? With the tiny error that 10" and longer arms have across the record, you are saying that they are not in phase except for the two null points? I have never heard that before and I have been to 3 county fairs and 2 goat breedings. Do you really mean phase?
Mark
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MikeL-Pivoted arms only have perfect geometry at the two null points. But, how does that fact relate to phase? With the tiny error that 10" and longer arms have across the record, you are saying that they are not in phase except for the two null points? I have never heard that before and I have been to 3 county fairs and 2 goat breedings. Do you really mean phase?
Mark
the stylus is either perfectly aligned to the groove or it's not. phase is simply the relationship of one sound in time to another. when the stylus is aligned perfectly then the phase can be absolutely spot on. when it's not in alignment there will be a degree of mis-alignment. a pivoted arm only has the potential for spot on alignment at two points.
our ears are extremely sensitive to tiny changes in phase, much more than tiny changes in gain. that's because phase determines where things are in space. close your eyes and you can easily track the direction of sounds....and how far away they might seem. how real they sound. it's why digital seems flat. correct phase gets thrown out with all the math. DSD/SACD does space better than PCM because there is much less math involved.
there is a reason that linear trackers do space better than pivoted arms. it's because of perfect (potentially) time alignment.
at RMAF Fremer did a workshop on cartridge setup. he discussed a computer program developed by Fiekert which allows for phase alignment while adjusting azimith. he showed us how getting phase as close as possible was more important than balancing channel output. it's the phase alignment that 'snaps in' when everything is right. i'll caution that Fremer did not connect the dots here, i did.
i have three tt's; one with a linear tracker and 2 with pivoted arms. it's easy to hear what i'm talking about.
can a pivoted arm sound great? sure. can it do phase very very well? sure. can it do it as good as a linear tracker? no.
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MikeL- I think you are confusing cartridge overhang with cartridge zenith. Incorrect zenith can affect phase, and in the case of linear tracking arms, if zenith is off, it is off for the entire record and it will affect phase. As I think you know, I own a linear tracking arm and I started the blog on Audiogon as to why I thought linear tracking arms are superior to pivoted arms. I have since gone on a new direction that I am getting close to reporting on the results so far.
Mark
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MikeL- I think you are confusing cartridge overhang with cartridge zenith. Incorrect zenith can affect phase, and in the case of linear tracking arms, if zenith is off, it is off for the entire record and it will affect phase. As I think you know, I own a linear tracking arm and I started the blog on Audiogon as to why I thought linear tracking arms are superior to pivoted arms. I have since gone on a new direction that I am getting close to reporting on the results so far.
Mark
in a pivoted arm, the problem is that correct overhang results in the minimum average deviation. at every point other than two, this deviation will result in a small mis-alignment of the signal for left and right. phase deviation happens in degrees. a perfectly aligned cartridge in a pivoted arm will have minimal phase mis-alignment....but it will still have some.
phase is invoved in every difference from one channel to another; in whatever plane you choose. either the timing is perfectly in phase or it's not.
the cutter head is cutting a groove at one alignment, the pivoted arm is reading the groove at another (except 2 points). just because the cartridge is aligned in side to side (azimuth) and in rotation (zenith) it's still not aligned perfectly front to back.
yes; zenith and azimuth need to be correct to minimzie this deviation; but a pivoted arm cannot possibly eliminate it.
a linear tracker still needs to be properly aligned or as you say, it's wrong everywhere.
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I had bought a recorder from a Saftway parking lot...
Ki...say it isn't so!
-Sam
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I have been to 3 county fairs and 2 goat breedings.
Mark
Mark, that reminds me of a scene from Dr. Strangelove - lol :-)
-Sam
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Like to have whatever they're smoking :)
http://cgi.ebay.com/BRAND-NEW-Technics-Reel-to-Reel-RS-1500US-RS1500US_W0QQitemZ150422208080QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVintage_Electronics_R2?hash=item2305dcbe50 (http://cgi.ebay.com/BRAND-NEW-Technics-Reel-to-Reel-RS-1500US-RS1500US_W0QQitemZ150422208080QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVintage_Electronics_R2?hash=item2305dcbe50)
Myles
Bargain basement price: Now only 19,950!
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Now down to:
http://cgi.ebay.com/BRAND-NEW-Technics-Reel-Reel-RS-1500US-RS1500US-/160430423874?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item255a65ff42 (http://cgi.ebay.com/BRAND-NEW-Technics-Reel-Reel-RS-1500US-RS1500US-/160430423874?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item255a65ff42)