Tape Project Forum
Tape Machines => Reel to Reel Tape Machines => Topic started by: rbwtapeinterlink-Bob on January 03, 2008, 03:53:07 PM
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Before I make a move to purchase the Studer B67 I began checking around. I got a call from a radion station that has these three recorders available for sale:
1. Otari MX-50
2. Otari MTR-15
3. Sony APR-5000
I am fairly familiar with Otari 5050 recorders but not the two mentioned here. And I am not at all familiar with the Sony APR-5000 recorder. Does anyone have personal experience with any of these tape recorders especially the Otari MTR-15 or the MX-50? I would appreciate any feedback please. Thanks millions guys. And thank you my friends for the response you've provided regarding the Studer B-67. As always I do appreciate.
Bob W.
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boy, all of those are great machines. I think it depends on what you're doing with them. The Otari MTR-15 deck is the latest and most sophisticated decks they made. Auto alignment and such. Also, the Sony has that as well. I had a Sony APR-5003 and it was great, but God forbid it needs to be serviced! Sony dumped all of the parts when it stopped making reel to reel machines. When I had to service it... I either had to do the work myself or send it to California for service. There are only a few companies left that even deal with them because they were such beasts to work on.
Come to think about it, I wouldn't mind picking that machine up. My old machine went down and it was cost prohibitive to fix. It would make a great parts machine! If you don't get the Sony... I'd be interested. Where is it?
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Hello Skyguy,
Welcome to this forum. It's a pleasure to have you here. Thanks for this note and input regarding these three tape recorders. I just called the radio station yesterday and left a voicemail message requesting someone call me ASAP.Initially I was told they might even have other tape recorders in storage for sale. Actually, began sending emails starting in December 2007 and still have not gotten a response from these people. This does not appear to be the conduct of people who want to sell unused tape recorders???
Once I get someone to contact me I will let you know what happens. There is another person who expressed interest in the Sony. However, in the last email he sent me he said he may not want it if it takes much longer. Personally, I am looking at the Otari MTR-15. However, I would rather have a machine I can eventually put in a portable wooden case and sit it on a shelf. Do you know if this can be done with either Otari's? Also, is the Otari MX-50 as easy on tape and as automatic as the Otari MTR-15? I do understand that the Sony can be lifted up out of the cart once plastic covers are removed. I also understand that it has handles on both siides to permit easy lifting. Thanks much for your input. I appreciate very much.
Bob W.
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Hey Skyguy, regarding the Sony machines, if you've serviced them yourself, you probably have a pretty complete knowledge of sources and info. There is a pretty interesting running thread over on the DIY forum of the Tape Op message board (stellavox has several posts in it) about repair issues with Sonys (mostly JH110 though). There seem to be a number of "fans" there. You might want to check it out.http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=41102 (http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=41102)
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Thanks Bob and Steve!
Bob- I would appreciate the notice about the sony. As for the Otaris... I really don't have terribly much experience with them personally. I only what from researched and such. The MX-50 are still pretty common. The MTR-15 was definately a "mastering" type deck. Pretty high end stuff. As for servicing, I've heard that the parts for Otari machines can still be found.
Steve-
I have been part of the Yahoo group that Richard Hess started for about four years. That group is by far the best source for info on Sony APR units. A couple of the guys in the group were former design and service engineers! The only reason I could do ANY work myself was due to their assistance. I think it's an amazing resource. I've seen the thread on Tape Op too. If fact, I get a lot of great advice there as well.
I have the opportunity to get another deck (Tascam ATR-60 1/2" two track), but I have always had a special place in my heart for the Sony APR units. Once Bob mentioned one for sale, it really made me want to forgo the Tascam and try and get another Sony APR 5002/3. My buddy has one in his studio (that actually works) and I remain jealous.
Cheers!
Brian
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Hello Brian,
On Saturday I got an email from the point of contact at the radio station where the two Otari's and Sony tape recorders are. They finally informed me that before these recorders can be sold they have to be processed through certain protocol. Now I understand why it's taking so long. However, Richard Hess had asked about the Sony, so I want to make certain he is no longer interested. If that's the case I will be more than happy to pass any info on to you. Is that OK with you sir?
Bob W.
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Sure! Ironically, I had asked the whole (Richard's) group if anyone was selling one. Richard said he would keep an eye out for me. I'll talk to him and see what his intentions are. Thanks again.
Brian
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Bob,
Did you ever move on the Otari MTR-15?
If it is still available I may be interested.
Please let me know.
Thanks,
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Hello Everyone,
I am still waiting for word from the radio station here regarding the Sony APR-5000, Otari MX-50 and Otari MTR-15. I just today sent off another email to my points of contact requesting a timeline when the machines would be put up for sale. I am waiting to see what feedback I get.
I must admit that this has been a rather exasperating experience for me. I had no idea it would take so long to put these recorders on the market. Actually, there may be additional recorders for sale according to the initial email I got back several weeks ago.
Brian,
I still have you in mind regarding the Sony and will keep you in the loop. Let's hope we get some word soon. Once they give me the OK, I will make arrangements to go and see all of the recorders and assess their conditions as best I can. Many of the guys on this forum have given me enough stuff to look for so that it at least appears I know what I'm doing (smile).
Charles,
I certainly want to see the Otari MTR-15 and have a keen interest in that machine. As a matter of fact, it does anything a Studer can do and maybe some things better or maybe not. However, it's a great machine according to what I've read. So, if and when it becomes available, I will take a hard look and if satisfied with condition and price, I intend to purchase it. If I donot, you will be the first to know and have access at it. These reel to reel tape recorders seem so close and yet..... Patience is the key here.
Bob W.
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Bob,
We will keep a good thought, perhaps they have two MTR 15s both still in their sealed cartons with the packing slips in the little plastic sleeves made out to WBAL, or WMMR. Something realistic like that would be sweet/likely eh?
Otherwise I will go up the road to ATR Services and get that 102 I have been avoiding.
Happy hunting
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Hello Charles,
What an imagination, but just maybe .... This radio station appears to be the only one in my area that still have reel to reel recorders to sell if they ever get around to putting them on the market. Maybe they know how hungry I am to see these recorders and want to torture me by making me wait.
I was first notified by a station employee after I called on January 8, 2008 that there were three and possibly more recorders available for sale. I have been waiting since that time for these people to put the machines up for sale. Let's hold on a little longer and see what happens.
Bob W.
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Thank again Bob for keeping me in mind. I really appreciate all of the leg work you're doing on this. There are something about pro-audio guys and drummers that makes them just so cool. I always joked at the drum clinics that I used to go to that if you stuck 100 rock guitarists in a room together, they would all be fighting within two minutes! : )
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I have both APR-5003 and MTR-15. Personally I will rank APR-5003 over MTR-15. MTR-15 has a killer transport, has Dolby HX yet just does not sound as good as APR.
I think the head amp design is the key. APR's curve is absolutely flat at 15ips as well. It runs bias at 400KHz, makes Dolby HX unnecessary.
Parts wise, I actually find out MTR-15 is not any better than APR. Both are super hard to find.
Sure, nothing beats a Studer A820/A80 with butterfly heads... okay okay, Ampex ATR, old Scully are up there.
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Finneybear,
I appreciate getting this input from you regarding the Otari and Sony recorders. I have been leaning towards the purchase of the Otari if and when I get the call from the radio station that they are availble for sale. However, although I am aware that parts are almost impossible to come by for the Sony, I thought that would not be the case for the Otari. Well, you live and learn.
Fact is, were it not for the people on this forum, some of us would not make the kind of decisions that would benefit us over the long haul. Thanks again.
Bob W.
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Well, Bob, if you talk about heads, basic transport parts, conversion kits such as 1/2" to 1/4" or 1/4" to 1/2",
John of Sprague Magnetics or JRF can help you on both APR and MTR-15. Electronics wise, as far as you keep
firmware EPROM backups, minor repairs can be easily done. For other mechnical parts, part machines are
the only way to go. It's possible to get Otari parts directly from Japan yet the source has not been reliable.
Again, John may hunt for certain parts for you, and I have found out APR is easier than MTR-15.
Talk about MTR-15, it's the most sophisticated machine I have come across. Mechanical parts are not as good as Studers
yet the electronics are simply second to none. Very well assembled with lots of attenion paid to details.
The downside is the head amp is all OPs with lengthy signal paths, even worse than A820. This hurts the sound quality.
The heads are hard permalloy... great sounding yet dont last long...
Don't be scared off by my words on the MTR. It's more reliable than APR, newer than APR so it shall last longer.
You can have someone do OP swaps then it will sound superb!
In either case, if you can get a good deal, I'd say either APR or MTR-15 will be a great pick.
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Finneybear,
I appreciate getting this input from you regarding the Otari and Sony recorders. I have been leaning towards the purchase of the Otari if and when I get the call from the radio station that they are availble for sale. However, although I am aware that parts are almost impossible to come by for the Sony, I thought that would not be the case for the Otari. Well, you live and learn.
Fact is, were it not for the people on this forum, some of us would not make the kind of decisions that would benefit us over the long haul. Thanks again.
Bob W.
Hi Bob:
What was the end result?
Did Richard buy the Sony?
Thanks,
Ki
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Hello Ki,
Thanks for your contact. Richard and I have spoken several times. Richard has a large number of Sony APR 2000's, but is always looking for another with specifics. I advised him and one of the members of "Tape Project" that I have decided to keep the Sony APR-5002 and have it repaired for my own use.
I am now waiting to sell my house and re-locate to North Carolina. Then I will have the Sony looked at. The Otari MTR-15 works well but was stored for 7 years. I intend to have it cleaned up for my own use. That's how I am leaning at this point. Both tape recorders are great and do all of the things I was looking for in the Studer recorders. I am a satisfied owner of two great tape recorders. My plan is that one will be a backup to the other. By the way sir, do you have either of these recorders? Please comment regarding your interest.
Bob W.
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By the way sir, do you have either of these recorders? Please comment regarding your interest.
Bob W.
Hi Bob:
I grew up in NC and did all my schooling there. Both of my kids were born in Charlotte. We miss the place but not the humidity and the bugs...
In my short R2R life - in comparison to many here, I have accumulated few recorders; top of the heap is the Sony APR-5003 I purchased in recommendation from Richard. After experiencing high mortalities in shipping R2R machines via UPS, I paid extra to have the deck wood crated and air freighted from East Coast to Seattle. It arrived without issues and has been recording and playing flawlessly. It's my main deck. The next is three A810s in portable configuration. I bought two of them in "mint" condition from a source in Canada and third one was from a Christian Music Recording studio in TX that turned out to be a money pit... It sat in a storage for too long - battery in the MPU board leaked and several audio boards were not working properly. A Studer factory technician in Redmond WA is spending lots of bench time ($$$$) getting the deck back to life. I should have given up on the deck earlier and kept it for parts... I also have perfectly working console A807s that were also obtained from Canada as labelled "Archivist" - only playback with no record head (perfect for the eventual TP tapes...) Other than the sick A810, all of my Studers have the nice Butterfly record and playback heads in near new condition. As Richard once told me - even if these Studer heads had only 15% life left, the decks will probably out live me... Then I have collected few Otairs - all in perfect working condition; one MX-5050 BIII (two track heads only) and five MX-5050 BIIs. My R2R journey started when I was young but had forgtten how much fun it was. Having a Tascam 32 rekindled my interest. The four track record/play is done with a TEAC X2000R. My wish is to try an A80 and A820 next if possible... and get an another Sony APR-1500 for parts. I believe Richard has 15 Sony APR-150Xs... So I am not worthy...
Ki
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Hello Ki,
Sorry it took me so long to get back to you. I've been away to visit NC and found the weather nice. I am a warm weather person so don't mind heat so much. My friend, you have a lot of recording equipment. I thought I was the odd ball out because I presently have the Sony 5002, Otari MPR-15, Teac 32-2B, Otari MX-50, Pioneer 1020L and Otari MX Bll.
My plan is to have the Otari MTR-15 or Sony modified so that the outputs come directly from the heads and bypass all of that other stuff. I would love to get a clean signal that plugs direcly into my Audio Research pre-amp. I do hope this modification is possible, and that I can find a person in NC who can do that for me. I hope I can find a good tech who can keep my recorders up and running for me without breaking the bank.
I had lusted after a Studer machine for sometime until I get my hands on the studio Sony and Otari. As I came to know more about the Studers, I found that all parts for those recorders are very expensive and that some parts especially bearings can't be purchased. Isn't it a shame that we must look to purchase more than one of each machine in order to have parts for repair??? Yes, Richard does have a large group of Sony's. He has urged me to purchase some basic electronics testing equipment. I have already begun to embark on that. I already have a dual trace scope and voltmeter. I am looking to purchase an AC voltmeter and signal generator soon.
Well Ki, I've been living in the Washington DC/Maryland area all of my life. I now want to move south and look forward to that move. However, I will be that much further away from where most of the great tape recorder techs are. By the way, you did a great thing having a special crate build for shipment of the tape recorder. I have heard of some dreadful things happening to recorders shipped in cardboard boxes. And, I am impressed with you collection of recorders. Look to hear from you again sir.
Bob W.
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[My plan is to have the Otari MTR-15 or Sony modified so that the outputs come directly from the heads and bypass all of that other stuff. I would love to get a clean signal that plugs direcly into my Audio Research pre-amp.
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Bob:
I would leave the Sony alone. Its playback electronics is far superior to even the Studers, IMHO. Maybe the A80RC and A820 may have simpler signal paths but judging from components (heavy use of vintage op amps...) in output cards on A810 and the configuration of audio output boards in A807 and to my ears, the Sony APR-5003 is much better. OTOH, it would be fun to modify the Otari. Since all Otari headblocks are connected via edge connectors, it would be easy to solder at the connector to wire a switch to send the head signal to stock electronics or to the appropriate preamp.
As I was playing the Studer last night, I thought about driving the power amp directly from the outputs of the recorder after putting its outputs into the Uncal mode. Even the Otari's should supply enough current and voltage to drive most of power amps to its clipping.
Ki
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Hello Ki,
I hear you loud and clear regarding the Sony APR-5000. Since it sounds like you are having great success playing and recording from your machine, I will not do anything but get my Sony looked after. Presently, I have an error problems that indicated the tape head is not in place. I must get that looked after soon. I hope I can find someone in NC to do that once I move there.
The thing I love about this recorder is that it's compact and can be taken off the cart and sat on a shelf, which I plan to do. Right now, I don't see how I can do that with my Otari MTR-15. I am planning on seeing if it can be removed from the cart and placed in a portable case that I plan to have made. Thanks so much for the advice regarding the Sony.
Bob W.
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HI Bob, regarding the Otari, I emailed John French over at JFR magnetics a while ago about heads for an Otari MR-10. During our correspondence I asked about the cost of setting it up to playback 1/4 and 1/2 track with a switch on the headblock ala Technics RS series. I can't remember the exact quote but it was super reasonable (the post is here somewhere). He does all kinds of custom headblock work for folks like Richard Hess who need repeatable head offsets and odd track configurations for restoration work so things like that are child's play for him. Just thought I'd throw that out.
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Steve,
You always come through with much needed information. I will look for that post. Thank you very much for this input.
Bob W.