Tape Project Forum
Tape Machines => Reel to Reel Tape Machines => Topic started by: cam3xl on March 10, 2008, 10:57:54 AM
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Has anyone taken the time to modd their Otari or Revoxx decks to meet the sonic level of modded 1500s? Is it even possible? Using the seduction pre seems to level the playing feild from the repro end, but I would be interested in what it takes to make other decks sing until we can all find mint 1500s.
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I have brought two 5050s home with me from the studio for precisely this reason. Paul, Michael and I met with Yoshida Shinichi, group manager of international sales and marketing for Otari Japan, last Wednesday. Yoshida is a very charming and enthusiastic music lover (he loves blues, so he is definitely one of the good guys in my book) who told us that Otari is very much ready and willing to support the new wave of reel to reel tape enthusiasts. As the single remaining tape recorder manufacturer in the world Otari offers not only brand new MX-5050BIII-2s, but also parts and service for the MX5050 series machines as well as the studio machines. Otari USA in LA can also completely refurbish a used MX5050 for you. We can help put folks in contact with Otari for parts and service and we can also help you to purchase a brand new MX-5050BIII-2. Hopefully I will be able to speak more knowledgeably about the MX5050s and potential mods to them after I get the chance to spend some time with the ones I have here in the lab.
http://www.otari.com/ (http://www.otari.com/)
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Thanks Doc. I just brought home my 5050 IIB and need to do some work, but would like to at least be moving in the agreed apon direction.
Thanks,
Bhek
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Doc,
I have two MX-5050BII-2s. I'm currently running my 1506 off the modified Seduction and am ready to modify my Otaris. I'm following this one closely.
Gary
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That's fantastic news Doc! Having real factory support and interest in your work is a milestone in my opinion. It can't be too long before the SET guys in Japan go mad over the Tape Project.
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how much is one of those new machines? i guess they would be a very nice option if someone comes with an easy way to take the signal directly from the heads.
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Basic price for a new MX-5050B III is $5400. I'll have to check on the cost of the option that adds the quarter track playback head.
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I looked at the new Otari as an option before going with the fully modded Bottlehead Technics. With $5400 price tag plus additional Bottlehead electronics and maybe an extra head, the Otari is more expensive. I don't know whether my 1506 will last longer than a new Otari, but Doc is a good guy to have on my side if it does need a repair. Now my machine only plays, all the record electronics are gone - so if you need that, then the Otari would be a better option. Larry
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I'll have to check on the cost of the option that adds the quarter track playback head.
Hi, can you explain the head option a little more. I don't think I have a grasp on that yet. Would the quarter track be a head that plays tapes that are recorded in 4 track mode? Would a half track head be a tape that is recorded in 2 track mode? What are the tape project tapes recorded at?
Thanks,
John
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I am very excited that we are now talking about doing some things with the Otari 5050 series of tape recorders. And yes, it is wonderful that the Otari brass is taking an interest in the Tape Project and it's efforts to get the magic of reel to reel tape back on top as it should be. Well, I guess I'm partial to this effort which would color all of my opinions on this subject. Keep moving foward on this so that the non technic guys get on board with great sound.
Bob W.
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Doc, would Otari be willing to build a transport only machine with the play head wired directly out ?
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Doc, would Otari be willing to build a transport only machine with the play head wired directly out ?
We did discuss this on the surface level and Otari seems quite willing. That said I don't have enough knowledge of the machines yet to determine how easy this would be, and I have yet to speak with their engineers. After a quick look at the chassis of some older models on Saturday we felt that it should be possible. So I would offer a tentative yes, given some time to explore the details. For starters we will help folks who want to acquire a brand new standard MX5050BIII-2. As other ideas develop I'll keep everyone informed.
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As an owner of two older restored Otari machines I view this latest possibility with enthusiasm.
The main impediment against purchasing a new B III for me was the apparent diminishing return of buying something that I was going to then modify i.e. replace new parts for say an extended frequency head for the two and four track heads.
Didn't seem to make much good economic sense.
Now if you could buy a B III without say a populated, or with a partially populated head nest and some of the tape path parts not installed that you planned to replace, stripped out electronics sort of a TP special now that would be a real incentive to go new.
If you have not already explored that option I would encourage you to do so.
Regardless it seems only logical to try to work with the folks at Otari to stay in the game a bit longer, and provide a machine that is ready to be modded out.
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Well, it would seem my original idea to encourage Technics back into the game took a slight detour. If Otari is interested in making a "Tape Project Special" unit, so much the better. Perhaps, even Otari could build a unit with an Isoloop transport? Hmmm. Craig
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Well, it would seem my original idea to encourage Technics back into the game took a slight detour.
I was emailing with the folks at Otari at the time you made your post. As we had not met face to face until last week I didn't feel it was appropriate to discuss this development at the time of your post, as much as I would have liked to. But we were definitely thinking along the same lines, just about different machines. I imagine that Otari will want to continue to use the transport design that they have been making for 20 some years now unless the market gets big enough to justify tooling for a different design. All that said, Jeff Jacobs has plans for some pretty heavily customized Technics machines as well, that might incorporate our electronics in a single package. So there may be a few choices available in the next few months.
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Keep us posted Doc. Thanks.
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Hi, just wanted to let you guys know I just picked up a Otari BIII yesterday. This thing is beautiful and I got a great price on it. This thing is almost brand new. I think the guy mentioned he only ran a couple tapes through it. I ordered a blank tape couple weeks back so tonight I will try to do a little recording. Right now I feel like a kid in a candy store and can't wait to get home. So any mods you guys come up with for this thing would be great.
Thanks,
John
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It's going to be a little while before I will get to those 5050s. We're remodeling the lab this week so I can get through the backlog more efficiently, and meantime more machines are coming in. It's getting difficult to walk into the listening room...I plan to get a couple more 1500s shipped this week, and have a big batch of headblocks in with Greg Orton for extended response heads. Once we get through more of the backlog and I get my new tech trained I should be able to start fooling with the 5050s.
Pedal faster, Doc.
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FYI
The BIII only has a 2 track heads on it. So I emailed Otari asking about the 4 track playback heads and received a response.
"The heads can be bought from Adrian Pro Audio in Los Angeles. The price is $375.00. Please call 818-347-9271 and ask for Adrian."
Just wanted to pass that on.
Thanks,
John
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Thanks John. That seem very reasonable. I'm a Technics man myself, but rumor has it, that the heads on the RS15xx machines are the same as the ones on the 5050. I'd like to find out if that's true. At the moment, I can't for the life of me remember why I wanted to know, but it must've been super important. If any of you guys see any part numbers on your Otari heads, please post them.
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Well Folks,
John French does it again. Just got off the phone with him and for those of us on the east coast that can make the drive, conversion of the 5050IIB does not seem to be a problem. Direct RCA line outs from the heads and switch (external to internal electronics) installed for approx. $200. Re-lapping and aligning all four heads and cleaning 2t/4t switch $295. At which point you will have one of the only 2 OR 4 Track, playback and recording, 3.75 OR 7.5 OR 15 ips, 7" OR 10.5" reel accepting, IEC OR NAB selectable internally, with direct out from head option TapeProject ready decks available.
Otari Owners Rejoice! We are now players too.
If you are not so close to New Jersey, you can ship your deck, but that adds significantly to the pricing. Also I did not make him commit to pricing, so yours may vary depending on the overall condition of your deck.
PS. doc, I'm sure John would share the procedure with the DIY crowd once he gets it done to his satisfaction.
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Well Folks Redux,
On my visit to ATR Services last month I reported in another thread on seeing an Otari 5050 B II in the process of being modded out to Tape Project specs.
So if you prefer York PA to NJ, freedom of choice; priceless.
Mike and Bill are the men of York!
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All that said, Jeff Jacobs has plans for some pretty heavily customized Technics machines as well, that might incorporate our electronics in a single package.
I am no technician, but from what I understand, the playback head's impedance and signal are affected as you increase the wire length from the head to the pre-amp. So, I would think that it would be best to have the wire connecting the playback head and pre-amp to be short as possible.
So, if removing the old transistor electronics and replacing them with new tube electronics is possible, then I would think think this is the way to go.
David
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I have an Otari MX5050 B series which ATR Services in York Pa has just completed mods on. Added extended frequency head from Flux Magnetics. Bypassed playback electronics and substituted Aria solid state studio unit (discrete Class A operation). Wired Mic In xlr's on back panel to accept outboard plugs. Unit is absolutely mint (purchased new 2001), and en-route to me now. Have tapes One-Four at home anxiously awaiting!
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I am no technician, but from what I understand, the playback head's impedance and signal are affected as you increase the wire length from the head to the pre-amp. So, I would think that it would be best to have the wire connecting the playback head and pre-amp to be short as possible.
In most cases the playback head is terminated with a small capacitance to avoid ripple in the top end of the frequency characteristic. Typically that capacitance is in the order of magnitude of 100pF to 300pF depending on the head used. In reality that capacitance is a combination of the cable capacitance and a physical capacitor at the input of the head amp. You can use longer cables and reduce the physical capacitor as long as the total value is about the same. Practically a cable of up to about 1 meter is feasible when you reduce the capacitor to zero.
Watch out for hum and other horrible noises due to long cables, though.
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I am in process of fully "going through" an A77 for a customer and will let youse know how it sounds (compared to my Stellas). Did a high-speed, two track one up for myself probably 15 years ago but at the time I never had anything else to compare it against sonically(sp?). It did sound VERY nice with better caps in the reproduce amps, and a front panel-mounted variable HF EQ control - listened to many pre-records with it over headphones before I had a good speaker setup.
I continue to recommend the A77 as a "starter deck" for those just getting into tape and on a limited budget. They are everywhere - the Volkswagon of tape recorders. Built like little tanks, they sound good "out of the box" and parts will always be plentiful and cheap - heck, you can buy a few decks as/for spares.
On the Yahoogroups reel to reel chatroom, I posted an article (rejected by Audio Amateur) which reviewed all the published A77 mods along with perhaps unpublished info I got from a Revox service guy. It's there in the "files" section somewhere.