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Author Topic: RMGI SM911 vs Quantagy 456  (Read 22802 times)

Offline ironbut

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RMGI SM911 vs Quantagy 456
« on: April 15, 2007, 02:52:20 PM »
I recently got my RS1500 back from servicing and biasing for RMGI 911. You can see the report on the results of the servicing in the Service Resources forum. A little back ground on how I evaluated the tapes.
As a source, I used my Apple powerbook with some home brewed recording I made which are uncompressed and which I've very familiar. Also, I used the cut "Yesterdays" from Patricia Barber's Night Club. These were sent through an M audio Audiophile 24/96 usb and were played in Apple lossless codec. The playback was through my modded Seduction with Amperex green label 7308's with a Silver Audio Silver Breeze tonearm cable and a Tom Evans Groove Tube ic. The amp used was an Eddie Current tube headphone amp and assorted headphones were used for listening.
First off, both tapes were recorded 1/2 track @ 15ips.
Both the 911 and 456 lost a bit of "air" over the source. This was pretty subtle, but if you listen for it, it is there. I could barely hear this on most of my headphones except for my Beyer dt880's. These are ruthlessly revealing of anything in the upper mid>highs as they have a tipped up treble.
Quantagy; There were 2 problems with this tape that alone, makes the 911 a no brainer. The main problem is in QC. I bought a few reels of 456 before the time before last, tape production stop. There was plenty of 456 left from many venders and I got this from my local Guitar Center. The problem is several low level drop outs. I doubt that you'd really notice these unless you were listening with headphones but I double checked a couple of the reels which had never been opened and they were all affected to one degree or another. During this evaluation, I switched tapes back and forth over 20 times and cleaned the heads twice.
The other problem that I had with the 456 could have been bias related and again, it is pretty subtle. On Yesterdays, the middle section has an extended instrumental section that features a lot of nice drums and bass. And when things got pretty intense, the 456 had a tendency to get a little fuzzy sounding with the instrument separation blurred. This is a wort that I have a real problem with. It's one of the reasons that I like tape for large classical pieces over my vinyl rig that is Oh so nice for smaller groups.
Another advantage that the 911 has over the 456 is headroom. I recorded the same Patricia Barber selection 4 times on each tape. Each time I increased the recording level (by half a number) for a real world analysis of the dynamic range of each tape. I was able to record a half number higher with the 911 for the same amount of overloading.
I also gave each a test of re-recording on the same bit of tape. Both did very well with 1 loud selection, then one soft, and repeat. So after recording the same section of tape 4 times, I didn't notice any obvious differences on the last play.
I listened with a pair of Audio Technica AD2000 headphones which have a nice extended bottom end. I think that the 911 had the edge on this as well. Both tapes were equal in extension, but the 911 had more texture and detail. When the electric bass hits just the right note and the bass cabinet creaks, you can hear it on both tapes but you can tell exactly what it is with the 911.
The last thing I tried was on the 911 only. I made this test with the idea of seeing if the 911 was a good replacement for 456 and if it was worth re-biasing and using as a real world everyday tape. So,.. I thought I'd give it a torture test and rewound and ff'ed a section I'd recorded over and over again. Stopping>starting, everything I could do to stretch the tape, till I got bored doing it. When I replayed the section, I couldn't hear any speed related artifacts.
Well, I think the 911 is a no brainer as Doc would say. Maybe if we can get enough of us to order some, we might be able to get a group buy discount.
steve koto
 Sony scd 777es(R. Kern mods)> Vpi Aires>Dynavector XX-2mkll>Bent mu>CAT ultimate>CJ premeir 140>Magnepan 1.6qr(Jensen xover)Headphone Eddie Current Zana Deux>AT ad2000,HD800 ,Metric Halo ULN-2 (battery powered),
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Offline High and Outside

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Re: RMGI SM911 vs Quantagy 456
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2007, 12:21:14 AM »
I'm not a huge fan of 911. Did you consider trying 468? We are using that for the Tape Project dubs, for a reason. It has been one of my favorite formulations for a long time.

And, I do a fair amount of reissue work, getting to work on tapes from many different sources. Those that were done on 468 going clear back to the '70's are usually in remarkably good shape (including Jazz At The Pawnshop, for instance.)

But there's no question that using 911 would be preferable to using 456.
Paul Stubblebine
Managing Director, The TapeProject

Offline docb

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I smell a story
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2007, 09:27:24 AM »
Yo Knobs,

Any interesting tidbits about remastering JATP?
Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President for Life, Bottlehead Corp.
Managing Director - retired, The Tape Project

Offline High and Outside

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Yes, there is a story...
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2007, 07:50:26 PM »
but it doesn't belong in this thread. So I'm starting a new one, over on the General Discussion page.
Paul Stubblebine
Managing Director, The TapeProject

Offline miroslav

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Re: RMGI SM911 vs Quantagy 456
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2009, 10:44:30 AM »
I'm not a huge fan of 911. Did you consider trying 468? We are using that for the Tape Project dubs, for a reason. It has been one of my favorite formulations for a long time.

.....


But there's no question that using 911 would be preferable to using 456.

I've been a fan of BASF/Emtec tapes for some time. I mostly use the 911 for tracking, but I also love the 468.
From my rather semi-scientific perspective...the 911 seems to work better for tracking, but I get the feeling the 468 works better for archival purposes/mastering purposes.

The 456 always sounded nice for Rock/Pop tracking...BUT?it just didn't spool as well as the 911/468, it wasn't as smooth on the transport, and I had too many sticky/shed problems with 456...whereas the 911/468 always looks/works factory-fresh even when it was several years old.

I think I understand why you prefer the 468 over the 911 for your purposes, but I would love to hear why you're not a big fan of 911...?
Do have that perspective just for mastering purposes, or for any type of use...and/or is it more related to the IEC EQ curve that you prefer over the NAB curve?

Thanks
Miroslav

Offline Lance Lawson

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Re: RMGI SM911 vs Quantagy 456
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2009, 10:25:30 PM »
I just ordered 3 reels of 468 from Full Compass Systems.  I'm looking forward to trying it on my recently recommissioned TEAC A-2300 SD.   The last good quality tape I bought for it was in the early 1980's and the most recent was some Radio Shack in the mid 1990's that was of dubious sound quality.  Having some fresh professional quality tape will be fun.

Offline docb

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Re: RMGI SM911 vs Quantagy 456
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2009, 11:35:14 PM »
Quote
I think I understand why you prefer the 468 over the 911 for your purposes, but I would love to hear why you're not a big fan of 911...?

Paul is on vacation for a couple of weeks, so I will answer for him. Hopefully he won't mind too much...

In our experience 468 retains the signal better. The folks who like 911 seem often to push the signal fairly hard which 911 handles well, and thus it seems favored by many for tracking as you mention. I would suggest recording to both formulas at, say, 250 like we use and comparing them the same day, again the next day, and then again a week later. Our application has a certain obligation with respect to longevity, and we feel that we are presenting the albums on a formula that sounds best today, next week and many years from now. If you like 911 better none of this matters, 911 is what you should use! An artist needs to use the materials and palette he is the most comfortable with to get the result he seeks.
Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President for Life, Bottlehead Corp.
Managing Director - retired, The Tape Project

Offline miroslav

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Re: RMGI SM911 vs Quantagy 456
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2009, 01:21:18 PM »
Yes...I kinda' thought it was something along those lines, and in my own unscientific way, I've thought that 468 was better suited for archival stuff.

I was just wondering if there was something unusual about the 911 that I needed to be aware of.


Offline Lance Lawson

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Re: RMGI SM911 vs Quantagy 456
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2009, 09:01:53 AM »
Signal retention is a very big plus for 468 IMO.  I decided on 468 as its closest to the BASF I sometimes used.  Some of my old BASF recordings done in 1980 have remained perfect and are some of the smoothest sounding I have.  In any event all of the current tape offerings are good since the only alternative no tape at all!

Offline ironbut

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Re: RMGI SM911 vs Quantagy 456
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2009, 12:14:30 PM »
Hey Lance,

Well put!
It's a bummer that there aren't more choices is a way, but it's great that all the choices we have are premium grades.
Certainly not cheap, but in the days of $1.30 cups of coffee and $40 a trip to the gas station, it' not out of line.
steve koto
 Sony scd 777es(R. Kern mods)> Vpi Aires>Dynavector XX-2mkll>Bent mu>CAT ultimate>CJ premeir 140>Magnepan 1.6qr(Jensen xover)Headphone Eddie Current Zana Deux>AT ad2000,HD800 ,Metric Halo ULN-2 (battery powered),
 HE Audio Jades