Webcor 2356 & Telectro SS132 Reel to Reel

[JDM]

Hi guys,

I have been looking all over the internet for info on these machines. I figured this site might be of a great service. Maybe someone has heard of these two machines? Anyway.....

Over the weekend I pulled out these two tape machines from my grandmothers attic. Cosmetically they are in excellent condition. I have no idea what the guts are like inside of them. I imagine that they are in pretty rough shape. I didn't have enough time over the weekend to give them a try, but I did turn them on and they seem to work. I won't be able to check them out again until Christmas.

They are both tube based 1/4" decks.

I am just curious if anybody knows anything about these two machines and if it would be worth it for me to spend the money to refurbish them? I would like to refurbish them simply because they were my grandfathers, but I don't want to pay a bunch of money for something that I can't really use. The main use would be for mixing down. Who knows, maybe I won't even have to have them refurbished, maybe just a thorough cleaning will do, but I don't know.

Thoughts, comments, advice etc..

Jeremy

[Ki Choi]

Hi Jeremy:

Welcome to TP forum.

If you haven't done already, be sure to obtain a Variac and bring the power up slowly when you first power it up. 

Unfortunately, I have no info on the two machines but sure do like to see some photos when you are ready.

[JDM]

Hi Jeremy:

Welcome to TP forum.

If you haven't done already, be sure to obtain a Variac and bring the power up slowly when you first power it up. 

Unfortunately, I have no info on the two machines but sure do like to see some photos when you are ready.

Hi Ki Choi,

Thank you for the welcome and response! Like I said in my post above, I won't be able to check these machines out until Christmas, but I will definitely take some pics and post them!

Take care,

Jeremy

[ironbut]

Hi Jeremy,
Welcome to the forum.
Webcor/Webster Chicago are grand old names in the history of American recording. Webster built a number of the wire recorders and their art deco looks make them a real favorite in collectors circles (although the proliferation of them on the used market make them a real bargain IMHO).
Here's a link where you can see examples of several Webcors.

http://reel2reeltexas.com/vinListU.html

I don't know much about the particular models but I don't know of any that were used in the recording industry. Contrary to what a lot of folks might believe, the reel to reel manufacture in the US isn't that old. The first machines that were in production here were by Ampex and they pretty much dominated the domestic market when it comes to studio machines during the early days.
There were a number of manufacturers during the 50's but they targeted home users and the dictation markets.

If the machines power up (Ki is right about using a Variac but it sounds like you already have) and the motors still work, the only major question is the heads. If they're rusted, worn or otherwise useless, the machine probably isn't worth the cost and trouble to restore it. So, the most useful pictures or descriptions you can give us would be of the heads. Most of these machines have a single motor and either it works or doesn't (many of these older machines weren't exactly great when it comes to the transports anyway). The functions are generally controlled by levers, cams and belt/idler wheels. You can usually have the rubber parts rebuilt for fairly cheap and the rest is a matter of cleaning and lubricating. Some felt parts can also be home brewed. It's really more like fixing an old grandfather clock than working on a piece of electronics gear. It can be a real head scratcher if you aren't familiar with how a tape machine works so a little study will head off frustrations. There's a "Beginners Guide" in a sticky about the General forum that may help but here's a site that has some DIY help for machines closer to the age of yours.
http://www.angelfire.com/electronic2/vintagetx/
Follow the links to the DIY section.

Overall, it could be a fun project but I don't think you'd want to bother trying to mix down to either of these machines. That is, unless you have a specific distortion that you're looking for. When it comes to speed variations, distortion and extremely limited frequency response, you'd be hard pressed to find a better machine.

[JDM]

Hi Ironbut, :redface: :D

Thank you so much for all of this info. and the welcoming to this (what appears to be) great forum! I wish I would have brought these decks with me, but I just didn't have the room at that time. I am very excited to dig into them at Christmas time! I will take a bunch of pics and post them on here. I glanced at the heads briefly and they seemed to be fine but as you know, I am not familiar with tape decks/heads.

It is funny that you mentioned about distortion. Just a few minutes ago I found this site: www.mzentertainment.com/studio_workshop_webcor_mm.html

It appears that this gentleman has made a pretty sweet guitar tubeamp with the Webcor 2356. So it also appears that you are quite right about the distortion. If things are not worth repairing on this device, the guitar amp could be another neat project! I just might have a win win out of these decks. Anyway, I will definitely read up on the links provided and will post the pics as soon as possible.

If these decks do not pan out in terms of mix-down and repair like you mentioned they probably would not (for mix down), what would be a suitable deck at a reasonable price? I realize that this site is mostly for playback devices (at least my brief perusal seemed to indicate that) but maybe you know what is good for that? My budget would be $500 and under.... preferably under. :D

Againg, thank you for the info and reply!

Jeremy

Hi Jeremy,
Welcome to the forum.
Webcor/Webster Chicago are grand old names in the history of American recording. Webster built a number of the wire recorders and their art deco looks make them a real favorite in collectors circles (although the proliferation of them on the used market make them a real bargain IMHO).
Here's a link where you can see examples of several Webcors.

http://reel2reeltexas.com/vinListU.html

I don't know much about the particular models but I don't know of any that were used in the recording industry. Contrary to what a lot of folks might believe, the reel to reel manufacture in the US isn't that old. The first machines that were in production here were by Ampex and they pretty much dominated the domestic market when it comes to studio machines during the early days.
There were a number of manufacturers during the 50's but they targeted home users and the dictation markets.

If the machines power up (Ki is right about using a Variac but it sounds like you already have) and the motors still work, the only major question is the heads. If they're rusted, worn or otherwise useless, the machine probably isn't worth the cost and trouble to restore it. So, the most useful pictures or descriptions you can give us would be of the heads. Most of these machines have a single motor and either it works or doesn't (many of these older machines weren't exactly great when it comes to the transports anyway). The functions are generally controlled by levers, cams and belt/idler wheels. You can usually have the rubber parts rebuilt for fairly cheap and the rest is a matter of cleaning and lubricating. Some felt parts can also be home brewed. It's really more like fixing an old grandfather clock than working on a piece of electronics gear. It can be a real head scratcher if you aren't familiar with how a tape machine works so a little study will head off frustrations. There's a "Beginners Guide" in a sticky about the General forum that may help but here's a site that has some DIY help for machines closer to the age of yours.
http://www.angelfire.com/electronic2/vintagetx/
Follow the links to the DIY section.

Overall, it could be a fun project but I don't think you'd want to bother trying to mix down to either of these machines. That is, unless you have a specific distortion that you're looking for. When it comes to speed variations, distortion and extremely limited frequency response, you'd be hard pressed to find a better machine.

[ironbut]

Hey, that looks pretty cool! It's always nice when someone's already prepared a "plan B" for you. What more could you ask for?

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better reel to reel on a budget than one of the gazillion used Otari 5050B2Mk l,ll, or lll. Many of them have seen a pretty hard life in radio stations and other professional settings but there are so many examples of this excellent deck that the prices can be crazy cheap even for a lightly used one. I suggest that you begin your search locally so you can see first hand what to look out for. One tell tale sign other than generally being banged up and missing knobs are heavy razor blade marks on and around the headblock.Those are from editing tape for radio spots (splicing ads together with station ID, interviews etc). A few aren't so bad and can even drive the price down. I think seeing one or two in person is a real education and your local Craig's list usually has at least one a month or so (if you live in or near a large city). I think a good used one can be had for under $500 if you're patient. I've seen them go for as low as $150 but that's pretty unusual. There's a thread regarding these machines and the differences between the models in this forum.
If you do a search, there are numerous threads about these here as well.

[JDM]

Thank you for the advice! If these decks don't pan out (and even if they do) I am going to look into the Otari. I did a little research last night and it definitely seems like the perfect machine for my use. I am going to keep my eyes open for one of these. Even if my decks are decent, it makes sense to grab the Otari simply for the fact that it will be able to be mantained much easier and also for the availability of the parts.

Thanks for your advice!

Hey, that looks pretty cool! It's always nice when someone's already prepared a "plan B" for you. What more could you ask for?

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better reel to reel on a budget than one of the gazillion used Otari 5050B2Mk l,ll, or lll. Many of them have seen a pretty hard life in radio stations and other professional settings but there are so many examples of this excellent deck that the prices can be crazy cheap even for a lightly used one. I suggest that you begin your search locally so you can see first hand what to look out for. One tell tale sign other than generally being banged up and missing knobs are heavy razor blade marks on and around the headblock.Those are from editing tape for radio spots (splicing ads together with station ID, interviews etc). A few aren't so bad and can even drive the price down. I think seeing one or two in person is a real education and your local Craig's list usually has at least one a month or so (if you live in or near a large city). I think a good used one can be had for under $500 if you're patient. I've seen them go for as low as $150 but that's pretty unusual. There's a thread regarding these machines and the differences between the models in this forum.
If you do a search, there are numerous threads about these here as well.

[steveidosound]

I did a bit of on-line sleuthing and came up with a bit of info. It appears that these are both full stereo portable recorders. Many of that era were not,  playing 4 track stereo tapes, sometimes with an external amp and speaker or even tape head output for the 2nd channel, but recording in mono, sometimes 4 track mono.
Anyway the Telectro name was also associated with Emerson and various private label brands like Montgomery Ward.

http://www.recording-history.org/HTML/CH/telec1.php

http://rochester.craigslist.org/for/1463317793.html

Their claim to fame was making simple cheap transports and electronics which managed to combine all functions for full recording and playback in stereo through built in speakers with 5 tubes total. Actually many manufacturers did this. These machines are probably from the early to mid 60s. After that they went solid state, before that, they tended to not be full stereo record playback as mentioned above. We are talking about consumer 7" reel, 1/4 track, 7 1/2 - 3 3/4 home machines here, not pro or even semi-pro units.
I think I even owned one of the Webcor machines in a previous collection.

http://books.google.com/books?id=-k0EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA73&lpg=PA73&dq=Webcor+music+man&source=bl&ots=Qzg3Iog4Mm&sig=bTi6INLwb78bunuDH9gbyJo6bM4&hl=en&ei=B3IYS7CaG4SUnQfb1-HUAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CB0Q6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=Webcor%20music%20man&f=false

If you do not decide to use them, these sort of machines are right up my alley collection-wise.
PM or email me

[JDM]

Here are some pics. They aren't of the guts or the heads etc... just of the decks themselves. I am in MA and the decks are in PA, so I just had someone snap a few pics to send me.

[JDM]

More...

[JDM]

A few more...

[steveidosound]

Thanks for the nice pictures.
Something that of the folks on this forum, perhaps only I could love ! :)