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Author Topic: Before you play those tapes!  (Read 11419 times)

Offline ironbut

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Before you play those tapes!
« on: November 11, 2007, 03:45:00 PM »
Well, the time has arrived and we're waiting for the arrival of our first TP tape. I know some of you are looking out the front window, chewing on the back of the couch. As my mom used to tell me, " that isn't going to make it come any sooner". So here's something to read instead. For some of us, this is old news, but it's not a bad idea to review. There's some stuff that you might not have considered ( like the dental floss tip and the thing about halogen lights).
Aside from the monetary value that each one of tapes represent, they are all special, and have great value. They should be preserved from day one as best we can. If you don't, future audiophiles will hunt you down and mess with your remains!( of course, that may be a sign of respect by then)
http://www.usrecordingmedia.com/antacati.html
steve koto
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 HE Audio Jades

Offline rbwtapeinterlink-Bob

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Re: Before you play those tapes!
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2007, 03:55:09 PM »
Steve,

This is great information and thanks for the link to additional info. I would only add that what you've said and all info on the link you'ver provided goes for any tapes we might acquire. They are all precious. Thanks again my friend.

Bob W.
Bob W. (African American) VPI, Ref Standard Grado, Denon 103r, Threshold, DecWare tube pre and Classe pre amp, Jolida tube phono pre amp, (Peter Gunn) modified Magnapan 1.6, Tascam 32-2B & 42B tape decks, Parasound belt drive CD transport, Pacific Valve tube DAC, VPI  TT, various upscale cables.

Offline Ben

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Re: Before you play those tapes!
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2008, 04:33:16 PM »
Bump ...
Everybody have their decks all in shape now to play those tapes?
Fresh snow here, and ready for my first tape to arrive.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2008, 04:37:43 PM by Ben »
Set 45,Open baffle speakers,Otari 5050,,Pioneer DV-79AVi DVD/CD/SCAD player

Offline reelnut

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Re: Before you play those tapes!
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2008, 01:59:36 AM »
Has anyone ever thought about what'd happen to their prized tape if a power outage was to occur??? I pulled this tidbit
off of usrecordingmedia's website. It's a real gem:

You may want to consider using a UPS, or uninterruptable power supply, on your open reel deck. Why? If you're rewinding a tape to play it and the power goes off, even briefly, it can be a mess. You can possible ruin your tapes depending on the transport.
John Hanek (dedicated amateur)- A810, X2000R, X1000R, A3440, GX636. Played thru Yamaha CX1, MX1, YST-SW150 (2), S55 (2).

Offline sound signal

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Re: Before you play those tapes!
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2008, 06:24:32 AM »

You may want to consider using a UPS, or uninterruptable power supply, on your open reel deck. Why? If you're rewinding a tape to play it and the power goes off, even briefly, it can be a mess. You can possible ruin your tapes depending on the transport.


For what it's worth, on a Revox G36, A77, B77 or A700, nothing untoward will happen.  The brakes will be applied and the tape will come to a stop just as if the Stop button was pressed.

The brakes on Revoxes are applied by springs, and are released by a solenoid which is energised when the machine is set to Play, Record, Wind or Rewind.  If power goes off while the machine is operating in any mode, the brake solenoid is de-energised, the brakes are applied by the springs, and the reel motors are powered off, just as if the Stop button was pressed.  So the tape stops in just the same way.

The same goes if the machine is set to Play and the power is removed.  The pinch roller is held off by a spring and is applied to the capstan by a solenoid which is energised when the machine is set to Play or Record.  If power is removed, both the pinch roller solenoid and the brake solenoid are de-energised, and the reel motots powered off, again just as if the Stop button was pressed.

If, of course, the machine was set to Record, the tape medium itself won't be damaged, but your nerves will be.

Don't ask how I know...

With best regards,
George Karaolides
Nicosia, Cyprus

Offline reelnut

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Re: Before you play those tapes!
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2008, 11:04:32 PM »
Good explanation and very worthwhile points! Thank-you for that info! However, here is where I believe the danger might lie: during fast wind, if there is no power in the tape tension assemblies the reels would not slow down and stop at the same rate. The reel with the least amount of tape on it would stop first, and the reel having the most tape is heavier, so it would keep on spinning and spilling its contents all over the place!
« Last Edit: November 17, 2008, 11:46:24 PM by reelnut »
John Hanek (dedicated amateur)- A810, X2000R, X1000R, A3440, GX636. Played thru Yamaha CX1, MX1, YST-SW150 (2), S55 (2).

Offline swissavox

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Re: Before you play those tapes!
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2008, 06:42:44 AM »
Hi everyone greetings, respects and what a really interesting project this is. I am very impressed and I am hoping to get enough pennies together to subscribe sometime. I thought reel-to-reel had become just another exhibit for the Jurassic Park, but now I can look at my own few relics with new eyes?

However, as regards this problem of the power going off when in fast wind mode, I don?t know, but having played around with reel-to-reel tape machines (both domestic and professional) for a few decades I would expect that a correctly designed and adjusted recorder (which naturally you would only be using to play such tapes on)  would just come to a halt quite safely, without having to resort to the trouble and expense of using a UPS.

I also have a sneaking suspicion that the quality of mains that such devices typically provide (such as quality of waveform, frequency stability / accuracy, or even RFI emissions) while fine for driving things like computers and their ilk, might not be the sort of thing to be associated with a high quality analogue music playback system. Especially one having the sensitivity and philosophy of this project?

Perhaps one only needs to see what happens by switching off your machine with some  unimportant tape loaded, and if there is a problem then adjust or have the deck?s breaking system adjusted accordingly.

Just a thought.
Gino Mancini Hi-Fi enthusiast and modest collector. Marantz CD12/DA12, Yamaha CT7000, Audio Research LS7, Quad II (rebuilt), Quad ELS57 + Townsend Ribbons, Nagra SNN, Stellavox SU8, Akai GX77, Ferrograph Logic7, Nagra T-Audio, Decca PCM system.

Offline sound signal

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Re: Before you play those tapes!
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2008, 08:29:13 AM »
Hi,

Thanks for your remarks.

during fast wind, if there is no power in the tape tension assemblies the reels would not slow down and stop at the same rate. The reel with the least amount of tape on it would stop first, and the reel having the most tape is heavier, so it would keep on spinning and spilling its contents all over the place!

Again, as far as Revoxes G36, A77, A700 and B77 are concerned, they are designed so that when the Stop button is pressed, power is completely taken off the reel motors.  The mechanical brakes do all the stopping with no contribution from the motors at all.  Naturally, this works exactly the same way when power is removed from the machine altogether.

Tape spilling is avoided because the design of the brakes makes certain that braking force is always greater on the trailing reel than the leading reel.  This is achieved by the wrap of the brake bands around the brake drums, which makes for greater braking force when rotating in one direction than the other.  In effect, the drum "wraps" the band around itself when rotating in one direction, increasing braking force, and "unwraps" the band when rotating in the other direction, reducing braking force.  This is much like old-fashioned leading-shoe drum brakes on cars, which augmented driver effort by the way the brake shoe was hinged.  The effect worked the other way around when the car was moving in the reverse direction - much greater pedal effort was needed for the same braking force.  Don't ask how I found that out...

The difference in tape load is compensated by the fact that the lighter reel spins faster, because the circumference of the tape pack on it is shorter, and the heavier reel spins more slowly because the tape pack on it has a longer circumference.  This reduces the difference in the mechanical energy between the two reels - a lighter reel spinning faster has about the same mechanical energy as a heavier reel spinning more slowly.  This makes it possible to always brake harder on the trailing reel using the simple mechanical trick Revox pulled with the brake band wrap, no matter what the difference in tape load between the two reels.

This is also one reason why, on your Revox, you should always have reels of the same type on both spindles.  Never mix 7" with 10 1/2" or plastic with metal or you will spill tape when stopping after fast wind or rewind.  Again, don't ask how I found that out.  The other reason is to do with tape tension and is beside the point of this discussion.

I am mentioning Revoxes because I'm very familiar with them and they are quite well known, but I would venture to suggest that most consumer machines from the open-reel era, even high quality ones like Revoxes, had simple mechanical brakes that were designed to always keep tension on the tape by braking harder on the trailing reel.  Electronic trickery with the reel motors was costly back when open reel was mainstream - and completely impossible in the earlier valve (tube) era.  Mechanical ingenuity, though, was de rigeur.

With best regards,
George Karaolides
Nicosia, Cyprus

Offline docb

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Re: Before you play those tapes!
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2008, 09:57:07 AM »
Another great thread here. I really appreciate the participation of the new group of experienced enthusiasts who have joined lately. I'll just mention that we have a little rule here, that folks who use monikers put their real name at the end their posts. It gives a little more credibility to everyone involved, and helps everyone keep all the players on the field straight.

Thanks!
Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
President for Life, Bottlehead Corp.
Managing Director - retired, The Tape Project