Run-A-Muck Chuck AKA CEVED

[ceved]

For those of you who have been relieved at the absence of my driveling nonsense, I say don't get your hopes up!
While silence may be golden, sound is platinum if played upon the correct equipment.
To that end, and with the helpful 'heads up' of our own Ironbut, I have acquired an Ampex ATR 102 which is wending its' way to ATR Service for the complete spa treatment.
Fortunately the ATR is in fine and dandy working condition and has been well cared for by a gentleman at the head of his class in the RTR field.
It sure is nice to know the origins of your machine, sort of like buying a puppy with the parents on premises.  It sure beats wiping off tons of dust and bird droppings too!  I know where is the adventure of discovery?
That is the background.
Here is my question.
Part of the refurb will include the outboarding of the electronics to the full functioning Aria which mounts on the ATR where the stock meter bridge sat once before.
Is there any sensible reason to hold onto the bridge?
Will this be a critical consideration to a purist down the road when I or my estate sells the machine?
If anyone needs a really well built crate to ship an ATR 100 series machine, please give me a holler, I may be able to assist especially if you are here in the East.
Well wishes to all.

[ironbut]

Welcome back,.. I'd hold onto the meter bridge, if for no other reason, if you want one down the road, good luck finding one. And if you decide to sell it/trade it, the hand of fate will swoop down and offer you a kings ransom for a complete 102.
Seriously though, I'm not that familiar with the Aria package. I believe it replaces the meters with bar type meters or something right? I guess if Mike is offering you a nice credit or  something for the bridge it would depend on how much. I do believe that if it isn't much, I'd keep it. All this activity (brought on by us) will hopefully lead to some significant advances in R2R technology down the road. How it will effect the configuration of the best machines is anybodies guess. I'd play it safe unless serious money is being offered.

[ceved]

I think you've got it I think you've really got it!
At least as respects the Aria.
I would invite you to check out the piece on the ATR Services website.
The meter bridge sits atop the ATR on a pair of 'leg' supports.
The Aria can use these same supports or be outboarded to a separate shelf or stand.
It does however make an elegant presentation sitting astride the ATR.
Ironbut, your sense of scale coincides with my predilection to keep the bridge unless there is a handsome credit involved.
I had proceeded on the basis of outsourcing the electronics without as much as a second thought.  No I am not made of money or green cheese for that matter.  It just seemed to be the correct thing to do.
Economics aside, is the outsourcing of the electronics a no brainer, or is there a case to be made from the purists who might advise to keep the meter bridge and refurbish the original electronics of the ATR 102?  I would replace the OEM heads with the Flux Magnetics extended response heads w/o a doubt regardless.
I hate it when I do this to myself.
Audio self flagellation no less!

[ironbut]

I've never heard the Aria electronics and haven't really seen anything regarding the sonics. It does have the advantage of being a single solution to upgrading the electronics. I think that the ultimate upgrade would probably be to have the EAR electronics package like Paul has at the studio but like I said, I've never heard the Aria. Hopefully we can expect Paul or Michael to chime in on the decisions that were made when having TdP do mods as other custom work for the studio (you can see TdP sprinkled in several locations at 1340 Mission). I believe that Stan Ricker also uses a TdP modded 102 for mastering. I can say that I'm very happy with my Bottlehead amp for playback but when you start talking ATR102/Studer A80/820, this is out of my league and I would wait to hear from the guys who have real knowledge about these things. It's not a decision I'd take lightly.

[mikel]

i have an ATR-102 and a Studer A-820; both of which i explored having the Aria installed on.

i only have heard great things about the Aria; but it outputs +4db pro level balanced output and not -10db you can input into a normal consumer preamp. during discussions between Mike Spitz and Fred Thal it was recommended not to try to knock the output down to -10db. so i passed on the Aria.

just make sure that either your system can handle a balanced +4db output or you have a plan to change it to -10db without losing the beauty of the Aria.

i would be very interested in how you deal with this as it could change how i am figuring this out.

[ceved]

Mikel,
Thanks for that insight.
In my discussions thus far, this issue of output levels has not been identified as a consideration.
I will indeed look into this quite a bit further.

[Studer Fool]

Everbody knows about Jensen transformers, right? 
In particular for anyone like myself with a professional tape machine provided with only XLR balanced +4dbu outputs but who has only standard RCA (consumer) inputs in their HiFi system, you need the Jensen model PC2XR.  It's about $210 plus shipping direct from Jensen. 
See: www.jensentransformers.com/pc2xr.html 
While not chump change, Jensen Transformers REALLY makes some of the very finest transformers in the industry.  Some will argue the very best, all I can say is they are very, very good and used extensively in the pro Audio industry as well as in high-end HiFi equipment (Jeff Rowland comes to mind).  If you're used to silly Hi-end prices they are a bargin.  What the PC2XR does for you is to step the level down; convert from balanced line to unbalanced; and provide you with XLR inputs and RCA (gold) outputs; all in a nice case which should be placed as close as possible to your preamp/input device.  Then you just add the appropriate cables - I used US Recording for a quick score of 25" XLR cables, but there are many sources.
The Jensen site also has some very good white papers and info on ubderstanding balance lines and inputs etc. check it out.

Yours Truly,
cdw

[ceved]

Thanks Studer Fool.
Ignorance is bliss, and I am sure blissful when it comes to some of this stuff.
This particular piece you highlighted may address two problems, as my Spectral gear likes RCA connectors although they included balanced connectors as well.
As soon as my 102 hits these Eastern shores Mike and I will have to commiserate in earnest.
Thanks for all the talking points.

[ceved]

Mikel,
I sure do not want to start a controversy, but while up at ATR today, I posed your question to Mike and he conferred with his sagely advisors and opined that the output/input level situation could be resolved w/o detriment to the signal quality of the output of the Aria to a consumer preamp.
I need to provide the specs of the preamp I will use to verify the appropriate settings.
You may want to revisit your specific situation with Mike again as this may be a recent development; I do not know.

While this is not an advertisement for the Aria, I was pleased to learn that it can be set up to bypass the 102 electronics, and accept the output from the 102 electronics whatever my preference is at the time.  I thought it was one way or the other.  Choice is nice. You mount the Aria on top of the stock meter bridge, or so I am told.
You could say it is an electronic hero sandwich; then again you might not.

I might add that the 102 arrived in good used condition w/o any evidence of rough handling from the west side of the country.
Mike, Bill and I in roughly that order uncrated the little dickens and gave the ATR a physical to scope out the initial diagnosis.
The patient will live; now my wallet that is another story.
The crate did the job w/o evidence of wear or tear either.  Perhaps the Samsonite gorilla retired after all.
Based upon the construction I fear that portions of floor joists may have been used in the crate fabrication process. Well I guess if you need an indoor halfpipe for your skateboarding, floor deflection is as good a place to start as any!

Two days w/o power have not dampened our spirits although it did make for eye opening showers.

Last but not least if you make the trip to ATR Services, be sure to check out a local record store called Ikos.
It is within a few miles of Mike's shop and is quite good with a friendly owner as well.  You can spend as little as an hour there and see about all you need to see unless your eyes are bigger than your trunk.  Rock is the predominate genre with a surprisingly diverse selection of jazz.  The crossection of musical styles are represented in varying amounts with a nice sprinkling of new vinyl as well.  Yes they have music CDs and videos as well.  Heh maybe the format will catch on afterall.
The Chamber of Commerce thanks you.